45-70 Pistol
09-06-2018, 06:12 AM
#11
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: WI&UP
Posts: 751
My question was , with all the handgun cartridges out there, is there a reason 4570 is not common in hsndgun? I see an advantage you can load mild to wild. Can you do that with others?
if handguns were during bow season i think they would be used a lot, after whining is done. Similar ranges. Arc path to get longer ranges having to judge distances.
I really don't care about the bow other than it lets me hunt more, same with muzzle loader.
I wish gun was Nov 1, instead of 15th. Nicer weather.
I got buddy who got 4570 bfr cause didn't want two ammos.a that doesn't bother me. I would most likely use different loads anyways. Some advantage one press and sharing components.
I might look into bfr for next bear season. At my house where I don't want to shoot far, my 4570 lever does trick. I think if I hunted in deer rich areas where I was willing to take more chances I would handgun hunt. I have been think about it. Though woods are so thick here I went to 4570 to see if they would run less than 3006. Last year dropped him, but was odd shot.
but again is there an advantage o 4570 or is just what the heart wants. I am not committed to anything. Maybe 454 cause more common.
if handguns were during bow season i think they would be used a lot, after whining is done. Similar ranges. Arc path to get longer ranges having to judge distances.
I really don't care about the bow other than it lets me hunt more, same with muzzle loader.
I wish gun was Nov 1, instead of 15th. Nicer weather.
I got buddy who got 4570 bfr cause didn't want two ammos.a that doesn't bother me. I would most likely use different loads anyways. Some advantage one press and sharing components.
I might look into bfr for next bear season. At my house where I don't want to shoot far, my 4570 lever does trick. I think if I hunted in deer rich areas where I was willing to take more chances I would handgun hunt. I have been think about it. Though woods are so thick here I went to 4570 to see if they would run less than 3006. Last year dropped him, but was odd shot.
but again is there an advantage o 4570 or is just what the heart wants. I am not committed to anything. Maybe 454 cause more common.
09-06-2018, 05:42 PM
#12
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ridgelines of the Roanoke Valley, VA
Posts: 64
Berserker,
You've never shot a contender pistol, have you?
If you think that the effective range is equivalent to archery, you're mistaken.
The 45-70 barrel is not as long of a range of a barrel as say the 7-30 Waters but you can sure knock a whitetail down at 100 yds and I haven't seen a bow do that.
The Ravin commercials have not yet been proven to me.
Love to shoot with you sometime.
Thanks,
Jimmy
You've never shot a contender pistol, have you?
If you think that the effective range is equivalent to archery, you're mistaken.
The 45-70 barrel is not as long of a range of a barrel as say the 7-30 Waters but you can sure knock a whitetail down at 100 yds and I haven't seen a bow do that.
The Ravin commercials have not yet been proven to me.
Love to shoot with you sometime.
Thanks,
Jimmy
09-06-2018, 06:06 PM
#13
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: WI&UP
Posts: 751
I have not shot one or hunted with a hand gun. I am guessing like a bow you really have to know your distance. I am also guessing most hand gun hunters hunt at closer ranges.
now you get into the mess if you want to allow hand guns and bows at the same time. Would you want to limit barrel length.
? Do you limit to straight wall cartridges? I am going to say you need to limit it some how. Creating quagmire of regulations.
now you get into the mess if you want to allow hand guns and bows at the same time. Would you want to limit barrel length.
? Do you limit to straight wall cartridges? I am going to say you need to limit it some how. Creating quagmire of regulations.
09-06-2018, 06:53 PM
#14
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
The “quagmire of regulations” is precisely why most states either have a handgun specific season, or lump handguns in with rifles in “firearms season.” I have handguns which can kill deer as cleanly as a rifle at 800+ yards. Hardly what a guy might picture when someone says “handgun hunting,” since the XP-100 and Strikers aren’t your grandpa’s M29’s! The new Nosler bolt pistol is another chapter in the bolt action specialty pistol saga - mine is on order.
No, like any rifle cartridge, the .45-70 is not a popular handgun cartridge, because more conventional pistol/revolver cartridges drastically dominate the overall handgun market - who’d have thought conventional handguns would be the most popular handguns? In the sub-class of specialty pistols, however, it’s a very common option. Straightwall + rim = functional in a revolver, and easily extracted in a break action. The heavy bullet of the 45-70 also offers killing power through bullet mass which is needed in pistols, which give up a lot of speed to a rifle barrel. The large bore diameter, relatively low pressure, and the straightwall case also mean the .45-70 loses less in a short barrel than a conventional high pressure bottleneck cartridge might. The relatively low pressure also means it can be chambered in a pistol which doesn’t weigh 8lbs just to tolerate the MAP.
The “mild to wild” option is largely overrated - even with a low power load, throwing a 300grn bullet out of a handgun will produce substantial recoil. My Super-14 has greater recoil even with Trapdoor level loads than a 44mag Super Redhawk. At it’s least, it’s still a very potent handgun cartridge - because it’s a rifle cartridge.
No, like any rifle cartridge, the .45-70 is not a popular handgun cartridge, because more conventional pistol/revolver cartridges drastically dominate the overall handgun market - who’d have thought conventional handguns would be the most popular handguns? In the sub-class of specialty pistols, however, it’s a very common option. Straightwall + rim = functional in a revolver, and easily extracted in a break action. The heavy bullet of the 45-70 also offers killing power through bullet mass which is needed in pistols, which give up a lot of speed to a rifle barrel. The large bore diameter, relatively low pressure, and the straightwall case also mean the .45-70 loses less in a short barrel than a conventional high pressure bottleneck cartridge might. The relatively low pressure also means it can be chambered in a pistol which doesn’t weigh 8lbs just to tolerate the MAP.
The “mild to wild” option is largely overrated - even with a low power load, throwing a 300grn bullet out of a handgun will produce substantial recoil. My Super-14 has greater recoil even with Trapdoor level loads than a 44mag Super Redhawk. At it’s least, it’s still a very potent handgun cartridge - because it’s a rifle cartridge.
09-06-2018, 07:19 PM
#15
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: WI&UP
Posts: 751
I notice the mild to wild in rifles. 4570 is rifle you can shoot from a kid until you are old.
I wouldn't mind handgun during boe, but would have to limit the guns used, which is probably just a mess.
where I am at center fire hand guns are only used during gun season.
I had to throw center fire, to keep out the smart asses.
I wouldn't mind handgun during boe, but would have to limit the guns used, which is probably just a mess.
where I am at center fire hand guns are only used during gun season.
I had to throw center fire, to keep out the smart asses.
09-09-2018, 11:11 AM
#16
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,902
The advantage of any handgun over archery equipment is clear enough to me, if a state allowed use of a handgun during archery season, I would sell all of my bows and never hunt with one again. I enjoy archery, but it’s a means to an end for me - bowhunting. With the fastest of bows, 60yrds is a phenomenally long shot on a whitetail with a heightened risk of losing the deer after impact. With even the least of hunting handguns, for example, a 5” 357magnum, 60yrds is a chip shot, with far less risk of losing the quarry. Gimme a 44mag and a field support and I’m talking about a 150yrd option. A .357/44 B&D or 460S&W and we’re talking 250yrds. My 7-08 XP-100 pistol, 600+ yards.
09-09-2018, 11:21 AM
#17
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: WI&UP
Posts: 751
Agree same with muzzle loaders. Even with a timney and leupold.
09-14-2018, 08:45 AM
#18
Spike
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 20
To a experience shooter the recoil of a 45-70 TC Contender should be no problem. In the past I shot 45-70, 444, and 375 JDJ.
Took a elk bull with a TC Contender 375 JDJ and dropped it in it's tracks.
The rule of thumb is each inch of barrel will give about 25 FPS. So a 2" difference will only add or subtract about 50 FPS so no real big deal.
Being a die hard pistol hunter I've taken 23 deer with a handgun. 22 with a 44 mag and 1 with a 45LC and all 23 was taken with solid lead cast bullets. I want 2 bleed holes and have never retrieved a bullet. One time I took a Texas heart shot on a big doe. The bullet entered 1" to the right of the butt hole and exit was in the neck. I only lost one deer with a handgun because the neighbor property owner wouldn't permit me to follow up. The property owner found the deer and eat it so no real lost and I could keep hunting.
Ohio is limited to straight wall rounds so can't use the 375 JDJ. One year I used a XP 100 in 7-08 on a deer damage crop permit and it worked well. I still have a Contender barrel in 7-30 Water Akley Improved and would love to use it also.
Took a elk bull with a TC Contender 375 JDJ and dropped it in it's tracks.
The rule of thumb is each inch of barrel will give about 25 FPS. So a 2" difference will only add or subtract about 50 FPS so no real big deal.
Being a die hard pistol hunter I've taken 23 deer with a handgun. 22 with a 44 mag and 1 with a 45LC and all 23 was taken with solid lead cast bullets. I want 2 bleed holes and have never retrieved a bullet. One time I took a Texas heart shot on a big doe. The bullet entered 1" to the right of the butt hole and exit was in the neck. I only lost one deer with a handgun because the neighbor property owner wouldn't permit me to follow up. The property owner found the deer and eat it so no real lost and I could keep hunting.
Ohio is limited to straight wall rounds so can't use the 375 JDJ. One year I used a XP 100 in 7-08 on a deer damage crop permit and it worked well. I still have a Contender barrel in 7-30 Water Akley Improved and would love to use it also.
11-26-2018, 08:04 AM
#19
Spike
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Ridgelines of the Roanoke Valley, VA
Posts: 64
Get a barrel longer than 12". The one shown on my Fajen grip a number of posts preceding is 15" from the custom shop.
You'll want to burn as much powder as necessary to launch those heavy bullets. The heavier muzzle with a longer barrel will help on flip and recoil too.
I shoot 45-70 in a 23" barrel also and the shoulder gets ALL of the recoil. Pistol is actually milder because of the suspension the wrists and elbow affords.
Pachmayr or Hogue grips are recommended by a lot of folks. I use a Pachmayr gripper when I'm hunting. The Fajen is for 'fun' shooting.
You'll want to burn as much powder as necessary to launch those heavy bullets. The heavier muzzle with a longer barrel will help on flip and recoil too.
I shoot 45-70 in a 23" barrel also and the shoulder gets ALL of the recoil. Pistol is actually milder because of the suspension the wrists and elbow affords.
Pachmayr or Hogue grips are recommended by a lot of folks. I use a Pachmayr gripper when I'm hunting. The Fajen is for 'fun' shooting.
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