Pressure signs this early??????
 

I am reloading for my 300 win mag. It is a Tikka, brand new, three shots before last Monday. I started out at entry load, 72 grains of RL 22. I shot the first shot and flattened the primer completely. The bolt was not sticky but that primer was flat flat. Do some guns have tight chambers? Will this gun come out of it with more firings? I am trying to work up to 75.5 max load and most accurate load according to nosler and a friend. I have never had a gun do this with a light load. Any advice.....I want to have this thing loaded up hot by Aug.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

With theinexpensive prices of chronographs every handloader should invest in one. It truly gives you important info about your loads. Not only velocity butalso standard deviation. That can be important forlong range accuracy.
Haugenna, if you are getting pressure signswith a starting load,is it possible that your bullets are seated too long and into the rifling? Pressures will skyrocket! Depending on what brand of primer you are using, flattened primers are not always an indicator of high pressure.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Primers are the first indicator. But its a poor one. If your using federals, they are going to look flatten no matter what. If its winchesters, or even CCI, then there may be some high pressures. How close are you to the rifling? Might want to back off .01" in a win mag.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

As Bob Hagel said in his book GAME LOADS & PRACTICAL BALLISTICS FOR THE AMERICAN HUNTER,"All rifles are individuals. What may prove to be a maximum load in one might be quite mild in another, and vice-versa."

It is possible that even a published starting load might be close to maximum in your rifle, and what is published as a maximum load might be well under max in someone else's rifle. You may have noticed, if you have compared loading datafrom a number of different manuals, that there can be a wide variation in the "maximum load" between the different load data sources, even with identical bullets and powder type.

If you have access to a chronograph, you can find out what the velocity is that you are getting from that "light" load. It may be that it is fast enough as-is, and that you do not have to increase the powder charge at all to get the performance level you are seeking.

Also, note that a flattened primer alone is not proof of too-high pressures. It CAN be, but there are other possible causes for flattened primers as well.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Thats it. I am shooting Barnes TSX in 180's and those bullets are long. I was crunching powder on a light load.I will load up some that are seated a little deeper. Anyone have the COL of 300 win mag.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

WOOOOH! BACK UP!

are you using a Barnes Manual? Because I've found that standard reloading manuals are inadequate when using the x bullet.Using loads out of theNoslermanual for partition of ballistic tip bullets when loadingx bullets isDANGEROUS. Those bullets are long, seating them deeper may cause you to have a compressed load which can cause pressures to skyrocket also.

http://www.barnesbullets.com/tsxguidelines.php

Does anyone have a Barnes manual? Please look up the starting load for a 300 win. loading 180gr. X bullets and post it here.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

In addition to what has already been suggested here, you might also take one of the fired cases and see if a bullet slides easily into the neck. If not, you have either a tight neck on the chamber or a fat neck on your cases. This will cause pressures to jump pretty good - even on starting loads.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Man I am even more confused now. I am on the road now and don't have my manuals, and I don't think TSX's are even in the newer barnes manual. I get frustrated with these damn manuals bc one will have the bullet I like but not the powder or vice versa. And the newer manuals are so conservative. Does anyone know or have the load data for RL 22 with a 180gr TSX???? Also what is the COL? Am I walking a fine line here? Like I said...not one bolt was sticky, no marks on the brass, just flat primers. I will measure the brass when I get home in a week. Gotta love a sales job.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

For 180gr XBT bullets and 300Win mag, the barnes manual says

RL22 70.5gr to 75.5gr (2898fps to 3103fps)

so Barnes claims tsx is safe 2gr over this load. So you should safely be able to go to 77.5gr. I have found with most of my magnums (powder greater than 70gr), you can got 3.5gr or so before heavy bolt lift.

I bet your not up to pressure yet, until your brass is not trimmed or your smacked into the rifling. Maybe even soft primers. Like I said, it depends which one. Watch for bolt lift.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

bc,
I started out light 72 grains and worked up +.3 and I saw pressure signs with flat primers the whole way. Did they give you a COL in that book? 75.5 is the magic number I want to be around depending on how the guns likes the formula. I am using Win large rifle ???? I think thats the name????? primers. Is compressing that load (75.5) gonna cause high pressure?

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Your going to have to make you a split neck case and see where the lands are. Its in most manuals how to do it. Do you have any tools like Comparitor to measure the ogive? I suggest loading .02" lower than where it hits since you hare seeing these signs.

Did you have hard bolt lift? Punctured primers? Flat primers alone does not always mean high pressure. Did you trim your cases to min length? Do you have extractor marks on the case? Primers is just one indicator to watch for.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

I have a swiss armyknife, some duct tape, happens to be a gallon of gas here, oh and this match.

I will revisit this thread when I get back home.

Till then

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Get a chrony and clock the loads.....IMO Barnes is out to lunch on this load.

75 Grains RL-22 is too much for a 180 grain monolithic in the 300 Win Mag.

I'm thinking a chronograph will confirm velocity of 3000.....or more.

Just an opinion here.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Contrary to popular myth, COMPRESSED powder charges DO NOT cause pressures to "skyrocket"!

As long as the quantity of powder is not excessive for the bullet being used, compressing the charge will not cause significant increases in pressures. Maximum pressure occurs after the bullet is at least 4 to 5 inches down the bore ahead of the chamber. Compressed charges are quite acceptable as long as the case shoulder is not bulged by seating the bullet, or the compressed charge does not cause the bullet to come out of the case.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Roscoe has an excellent point here, as a tight neck WILL cause problems. Not too many years back, we had a similar problem with excessive pressures in a .300 Dakota with under-max loads, just like you're having, and the problem turned out to be that the chamber neck was about .002" too tight with the brass we were using. This was corrected by increasing the diameter of the chamber neck.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

A couple excellent posts by Eldeguello.....
compress loads skyrocket pressure???....where did this information come from?????....It's simply not true.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

compress loads skyrocket pressure???....where did this information come from?????....It's simply not true.

Vapo, it came from here (see bold above).

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Read what I wrote smart @ss. I said "can cause" If you know as much as you pretend to know you know that I'm correct.

Read this next part very carefully!
Compressed loads are not necessarily dangerous. Much depends on the type of powder used and the amount of compression. Generally speaking, compressed loads using slow burning powders are seen frequently in many reloading manuals. Since the overwhelming majority of us do not have the proper test equipment, it is not wise to attempt loads of this kind unless they are obtained from a reputable source. They will be annotated as "compressed" in the text.


I was more concerned that he was using an improper source for his reloading data.

Again, do not attempt compressed loads unless you are absolutely certain of the source. Even then, do not seat the bullet to such an extent that it "crushes" or deforms the propellant in any way.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

UPDATE.

Here's the deal. I was out of town for work in lovely Bend, OR.....as most of you know is the home of Nosler. I got to talking to the folks at the Nosler store by the factory, and we discussed this same issue and did a test on a Tikka 300 Win mag. Well we found out two things. I am no where near the lands because the detachable magazine will not let a bullet get that long. I don't have the measurements in front of me but I was well below the length reaching the lands. Another thing, the bullet sure is seated deep because of that magazine.

So back to the drawing board I go. I am switching to Nosler partitions 165 grains, but let me throw this out, what grain of bullet works best with the 300 WM. It is a tikka t3 lite, 24" barrel with 1-11 twist. Let me know what you all think.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Honestly, I think your overthinking this way too much without doing some of your own homework. Unless you took your gun to nosler and they personally meausred your thoat, your advise from them is about what you paid for it. There is no shortcut for this stuff. You got to do it yourself on your gun. Its not hard, and important you know how to find distance to the lands if you stay in the reloading world. I took my gauges around 4 gun stores once and measured distance to the lands with 3 marked bullets in 300RUM. I got measurements from 3.66" to 3.90". Noslers test was on there guns. Thats the reason thier "accurate" load is 90% of the time not the "accurate" load.

I mean, are you looking for any other pressure signs? Hard bolt lift? Extractor marks? Case head expansion? Well over velocity? It doesn't sound like you ever went back to try find the following? If you have trouble with TSX, your going to have trouble with 165gr partition.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

I agree with B.C. - there is only so much research you can do on this stuff before you have to just go out and spend some time at the bench . . . and then some more time at the range. Every one of these guns is it's own little DNA molecule. Some have shorter throats - some longer. Some develop high pressure with 57 grains of IMR 4357 - some digest these loads all day without a squabble. Some shoot a lot of different bullets well. Some only shoot one load. Some don't shoot anything worth a hoot. Not that research is a total waste of time, but get out there an pay your dues like the rest of us.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

Going back to the original question, how old is the brass? A looser fit in the primer socket will send the primer back to the bolt more easily, causing it to flatten more. I've found that most of my older brass ejects with flattened primers, even with moderate loads. food for thought.

RE: Pressure signs this early??????
 

BC and Roskoe,thanks for the help, just so there is no confusion, I am aware that each rifle is different,but I am looking at a huge difference 3.357 is the longest I can get a cartridge to fit in the Tikka's detachable magazine. When I checked the lands on my cartridge, it came to 3.520 so I was well off the lands when I shot these loads...but to answer your other questions bc, there were no other signs of high pressure. So I will continue incrementally until I see other pressure signs. Ok lets put this post to bed.

Haugenna