416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Think I've found an acceptable cast bullet load for my CZ 416 Rigby. It consists of 112 grains of AA8700, the BULL SHOP .417" diameter 350-grain flatnose gascheck bullet with a Brinell hardness of 22, what appears to be NRA-type ALOX lube, with Federal 215 primers in Jamison cases. MV was 2100 fps average. Tried 100 grains too. This 100-grain load gave 1950 FPS, was less accurate, and gave some hangfires. No hangfires with 112 grains, though!

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Excellent, you got ya a high powered marlin 45-70 now.:D

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Agreed, it is very close to .45/70 performance. (Nothing wrong with that!!) But it gives me a relatively low-cost round for practicing with the .416, whereas jacketed slugs for this beast are pretty expensive!! These only cost me $20.00 for 100, instead of $23.00 for 50 of the cheapest jacketed bullet, the 350-grain Speer Mag. Tip.

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Thats pretty awesome. I am just shocked it takes so much powder to burn.

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

That load should out penetrate anything else you could shoot in it except maybe the solids. The 45-70 with hard cast bullets will out penetrate the 458 Win, 458 Lott and the 460 Weatherby. Tests show that velocity below 2000 fps is optimum. Starting at about 1600 fps. This is for basic non-expanding cast bullets. In fact the 45-70 in tests by Garret, penetrates 50 percent more.

Velocities above this point start to expand the bullet and starts to curve its path thus limiting expansion. When using flat point bullet with a large Meplate, tissue damage is massive without the high velocity.

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Well, if you examined a 416 Rigby case, you would not be so surprised at the amount of powder this thing takes! In addition, AA8700 is pretty close to the slowest stuff there is. For example, I loaded 58 grains of it in a 7X57mm case with 175 grain bullets, just to see what would happen. MV, barely 1900 FPS!!

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

That's pretty interesting! Puts the lie to those who claim that the .45/70 is not adequate for dangerous game, doesn't it?? Most who say this have never even tried it for that purpose!

Thanks for the article. Sounds like I need to SLOW THAT BULLET DOWN to optimize its' performance as far as penetration goes, as the current Mv is 2100 FPS. However, since it doesnot have a particularly efficient form being a blunt flatnose, perhaps by the time it has reached the 100-yard marker, it has slowed enough. I don't know the B.C. of this bullet. I guess I COULD put the Chrony at 100 yards and see what happens! I haven't shot the Chrony yet, and it is about time for a new one anyway!!

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Wait a second, how can a 45-70 out-penetrate a 458 Lott? Not that I don't believe you, but what am I missing?

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Its kinda like when a diver jumps in a pool from 5ft. He goes a certain depth. But if he jumps from 100ft, then surface tension of the water changes in porportion with the force impacted even though the diver Friction coef doesn't change.

But I am not so sure with a barnes solid thats the case however.

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

AGSHOOTER, what you're missing is the fact that any given solid bullet will penetrate deeper if it is launched slower (within a certain velocity range!!), as resistance to penetration increases as the square of the velocity increase. Just read the Garrett article!It is pretty easy to understand!!

http://www.garrettcartridges.com/penetration.asp

For example:

"Very interestingly, if one takes the Hornady 500-grain .458 diameter solid bullet and compares the penetration that results from impact speeds varying from about 1500-fps to 2500-fps, one finds that the higher impact speeds produce the least penetration. When driven to about 1500-fps (as the 45-70 will do) one finds that such solids produce nearly 6-feet of penetration in wet newspapers. When the same bullet is driven to about 2100-fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Winchester Magnum) one finds that the penetration is reduced to about 4 to 4 and 1/2 feet. When one tests the same bullet at 2300-2400 fps (as is characteristic of the 458 Lott) one finds that the penetration comes up nearly 20% short of that produced by the 458 Winchester. And when one tests the same bullet at the blistering speeds characteristic of the mighty 460 Weatherby Magnum, one finds that the penetration achieved is the most shallow produced by the various 458s."

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Just a question on this interesting information. At high velocity speed on large bullets, what happens to the energy that is being absorbed. Is the energy just absorbed by the target , does it create a so call shock wave and if so does it do anything to the vitals or does the energy just push the target ? I’m not sure if I’m getting my question across but I’m trying...:eek:

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Yep its absorbed by the target in many forms. Some as shock waves, some as push, but you can't break that law.

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

I have not used many solids but when it comes to hard cast bullets, to much velovity will start some expansion or at least deformation. Anything that causes a bullet to change a straight and true course will interfier with expansion. As much as some will deny this to the end, sometimes slower really is better. When it comes to big slow lead bullets, several million buffalo can't be wrong. Also when a 45-70 bullet will kill two Cape Buffalo with one shot and completly penetrate both, Its pretty hard so convince one that the 45=70 does not have what it takes. The story of the guy who took the African big six with the 45-70 marlin is also on that site. This along with several other feats that the old war horse can't do.:D

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

LOL. I know a guy who made a reverse Texas heart shot on a deer with a .458 WIN mag loaded with a cast bullet at reduced velocities. He Shot in straight on and the bullet penetrated all the way through the deer the long way. :D

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

My line of thinking is that greater velocity=greater penetration, given the same bullet... Regardless of the change in surface tension in the water, the friction between animal and the entering bullet is the same--right?

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Nope, remember the physics that eld pointed out.

resistance to penetration increases as the square of the velocity increase

There's a balance your trying to reach. Not too much, not too little to get max penetration.

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

Got it, sorry Eld, i missed your reply earlier --

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

but I still like to smack em hard as possible:D:D:D Thats the reason I hve a 2100fps 45-70 300gr partition deer load.

RE: 416 Rigby Cast Bullet Load
 

BC. You are right on that, most any good bullets will not lack penetration on deer size game. Therefore the velocity and shock effect is what you want. I really like the Partition and also the 300 grain Hornady HP. For bigger game like moose, you can't beat the 350 grain Hornady RN. Good penetration but also fair expansion. I have taken some really big Black Bears with that bullet from the Marlin. If I recall, I was getting about 1900 fps with that load.