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Larger diameter advantage?

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Larger diameter advantage?

Old 02-28-2006, 10:35 PM
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Default Larger diameter advantage?

O.k. I could post this question in the general "guns" section but figure the guys in here are the type I'd like to have answer my the question. (That's not a slam on anyone, but I find that people who reload are, generally, more technically minded...the kind of answers I like)

Grizzly Bears, Buffalo, Lions...I mean lets face it. There are times when you want to throw as much lead as fast as you can. But I want to talk about dear, boar, black bear, elk, sheep...the "big game" that doesn't have that invincability aura around them. The main advantage I see in moving up in caliber beyond .30 is throwing a heavier bullet without having to make them 1.5" long. When you consider the hydrostatic 'cloud' that is made by a .30 bullet inside the animal is several inches in diameter what difference does another .05 or .1 inches make? I realize that there will always be Different strokes for different folks but is there really any advantage to these big-big bores other than more weight?

Just looking for general thoughts on that question^^^

Now let me make sure my theory on something else is correct. Its not the fact that a heavier bullet (for a given caliber) requires a faster rotation because of its weight...but because of its length, correct? Why do longer bullets need faster twists? I don't imagine there is much rotational slip, (you know, the lands have a 1:12 inch twist but the bullet is slipping on the lands and only turning at 1:>12 inches) but a longer bullet would have more bearing surface, more friction, and slip less...requiring a slower twist. BUT the reason a faster twist is actually required by longer bullets is because, in flight, there is more mass farther away from the bullets center of gravity making it less stabil and requiring a faster rotation to keep if from tumbling. Is this correct?

That was long winded and probably hard to read but would like to see if I'm thinking along the right lines.
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Old 03-01-2006, 10:11 AM
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Default RE: Larger diameter advantage?

But I want to talk about dear, boar, black bear, elk, sheep...the "big game" that doesn't have that invincability aura around them. The main advantage I see in moving up in caliber beyond .30 is throwing a heavier bullet without having to make them 1.5" long.
For those animals there's no reason I can think of for anything beyond 30 caliber. Larger bullets can often increase penetration and on larger targets this can be important. The various .300 magnums (and even the .30-06) will handle this group of targets nicely.

To the question about twist:...yes length of the bullet is the determining factor.......not weight. Further slip don't happen in the barrel.....your theory on the twist rate for longer bullets might be absolutely correct. A study of gyroscopic motion will be need to prove it but I'd suspect you're spot on there.
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Old 03-01-2006, 04:21 PM
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Default RE: Larger diameter advantage?

You bring up an interesting topic for discussion. I have often thought that all that really matters in the world of terminal ballistics is the size and shape of the permanent wound channel. There does seem to be some validity to the claim that when a large bullet enters an animal, it allows air to come into the wound better (the better to collapsethe lungs) and blood to more effeciently leak out.

But generally speaking the main advantage to a big bore gun is that the bullet weight can be increased quite a bit. I'm just not sure that, in this day and age of high tech bullets, whether bullet weight is anywhere near as important as is was 30 years ago. I shot an elk in 2002 with a Barnes X bullet out of a .300 Winchester; and found the wound channel to be about the same as what I got from a .45-70 pushing a 405 grain Keith style lead bullet. Not that I'm advocating elephant hunting with a .300 Winchester, but it's fairly amazing how well some of these new bullets can penetrate.
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Old 03-04-2006, 07:03 AM
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Default RE: Larger diameter advantage?

Generally speaking if you have two bullets of different diameters but of identical construction, identical sectional density and ballistic coefficient, if you launch them at the same MV, they will both penetrate the same amount in a given target medium, whether it is a piece of steel armor or an animal. This is true regardless of the actual weight of the two bullets. However, a larger bullet may be tougher, and tend to be distorted to a lesser degree than a lighter projectile just because there is more material in the bigger bullet. Under these circumstances, the bigger bullet will go deeper. However, I suppose one could argue that in this case, the bullets are not of identical construction.

If the two bullets mentioned are travelling fast enough, there will be little difference in the wound channels they produce in a game animal, so if they both penerate the same amount, the effectiveness of one vs the other on a game animal will not be too different either. Now all this is altered significantly if the bullets are of expanding type, in which case the design and construction of the bullet has a major impact on how deep it goes, regardless of velocity and sectional density!

Back in 1968, I had the opportunity to discuss wound ballistics with a couple of surgeons at a treatment facitlity in Vietnam.They told me that it was NOT POSSIBLE to tell what kind ofHV rifle bullet made a given wound based on the appearance of the wound-that a 5.56mm, a 7.62X39mm, a 7.62X51 NATO, a 7.62X54R, and the .30/'06 all made wound channels in people which were pretty much the same. And these guys saw a lot of such wounds. ALL made small entrance wounds, and the diameter of the wound channel increased on the inside, but the size of this channel was more dependent on how much velocity the bullet still had after hitting-in other words, the greater the range, the smaller the wound channel. BTW, a full-jacket bullet can make one horrible wound channel at close range, even if it does not keyhole!
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