7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

The balistics show the 300 being a better cartrige for long range. Does anyone have an opinion on this and does anyone reload these and can tell me which cartrige is the best for long range deer hunting...400 yards and further.

Thanks in advance

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Your going to get higher BC with the .308 bullet. Also, seems to like bullets in the 200-220gr category. Some like the 220gr Matchking has over .6 BC.

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

For deer either one will work fine at distances much further than most of us have the skills to shoot accurately.

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RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

frankly i fail to believe that any one needs a deer cartridge for more that 400 yards. now i want you to realize that at ranges under 100 yards you are really going to mess up the deer meat. now if you are a antler only hunter that might be ok with you but i still dont like it.
if you can actally shoot well at 400+ yards i reccomend the higher bc with the .30cal bullet offerings, it provides more umph.

propmahn
you can never have too many guns

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Propmahn....Let me first say that you are not talking to a rooky deer hunter. I have been shooting a rifle since I was six years old and am now 30. I have hunted with a 7mm Rem. Mag for the past 15 years and personally never seen the evidence to back up the fact about messing up the deer meat. I have killed deer at 20 yards to 385 yards with the 7mm that I currently own.

I hunt in Uvalde Tx on a company lease about half of the deer season where the country is flat. There is some brush but we have a bunch of oat fields with zero cover. The brush is on neighboring leases. Last year I let two deer walk because I wasn't sighted in for 400 yards. I would like to start carrying two guns one sighted for short and one long. When there is nothing to hide you, try to get within 500 yards of a 180 class buck. It won't happen unless you are walking around in a Cow Costume.

Anyway, I asked your opinion on a gun and caliber, not my ethics in hunting....

Stone Cold

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Propman, where are you shooting your deer???? I suggest not shooting them in the hind, spine, neck or places like that where you mess up the meat. I shot two last year with my 300RUM with almost no meat damage besides the one shoulder, which I could care less about. But I only try to shoot my deer thru both lungs or broadside shot. I never see this huge amount of meat damage. The guts protect the hinds from hydrostatic shock, the spine and ribs protect the backstraps and the shoulders protect the shanks.

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RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

dg-your numbers are a little mixed up or you have found a way to cheat gravity.With a muzzle velocity of 3540fps my stw is 2-3/4" high at 100,3-1/2" high at 200,1" high at 300,about 6" low at 400 and 18" low at 500 yards.My dead zero is also around 320 to 330 yards.My loads are 60 fps under the 3600 you quote but that is nowhere enough to make 12" differece at 500 yards.I an using 140 gr ballistic tips which have a very high ballistic co-efficient and no bullet has a high enough ballistic co-efficient to make up that kind of difference.

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RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Stone Cold(good handle),I expect to take some flak for this, but I say if you have doubts about hitting a deer at 400-500 yards with your 7mm Rem Mag(my 7 Rem Mag launches a 140 ballistic Tip at 3300 fps)an Ultra Mag isn't going to help much.Adding 200-300 fps to a given bullet isn't likely to make it a "whole" lot easier,but every little bit helps.

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Rembo,

It is not the cartridge that I was worried about or the person shooting, I was worried about the rifle that I was shooting. I am shooting a Browning Bar Mark II (Auto). I don't find it groups as well as a bolt. So I figured if I am going to buy a bolt for this distance I might as well see what the best cartridge is.

Thanks

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Stone, theres more than one way to skin a whitetail, consider this, I use this setup for powerline and open field hunting. Get an accurate rifle, something like a remington 700, chamber it for a non magnum cartridge that is easy to shoot, 280, 3006, something that wont make your fillings drop out of your teeth when you shoot it, mount a premier reticles leupold on it, and buy a Leica range finder. Ultra high velocity isnt the only way to make good hits at long ranges. The premier reticles scope is regulated for one particular load, so there is that drawback, but for me its much easier than trying to shoot a heavy magnum accurately. Something to consider.

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RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

The comparison between these two is essentially the same as the comparison of any 7mm and .30 caliber rounds that have similar case capacities. The .30 will always shoot heavier, larger diameter bullets at equal or slightly higher velocities. Consequently, the .30 will always be a little more powerful at all ranges, provided the .30 is used with bullets of equal or higher ballistic coefficient. (This is not always the case, either!!) The .30's will also always have more recoil than the 7mm's at similar velocity levels. The question is, does shooting deer at 400 yards require the extra margin of the .30 magnum vs a 7mm? Answer. NO. But, if shooting elk, moose, or bigger bears, then the nod goes to the .30!! Good luck!!

Keep yore powder dry!!

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Actually it may surprise some to know that at 300 and 400 yards a 160 lauched at 3100 from a 7 Rem Mag will shoot flatter and have more energy than a 180 from a 300 Win Mag at launched at 3100.

My Barnes ballistics program shows the following.

.284" 160,BC of .468 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard vero

300 yards,Velocity:2491,Energy:2204,Trajectory:-6.17"
400 yards,V.......:2306.E.....:1889,Trajectory:-17.95"

.308" 180,BC of .410 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard zero

300 yards,Velocity:2411,Energy:2066,Trajectory:-6.42"
400 yards,V.......:2206,E.....:1728,Trajectory:-18.84"

Now....you could load a 200 gr bullet in the 300 with a similiar BC to the 160 gr 284" and launch it at 3100 from an Ultra Mag or possibly from a long barrelled 300 Weatherby and it will keep up with the 160 .284" bullet and maybe surpass it.The only tradeoff is recoil.This is why the 7mm Rem Mag is such a good all around cartridge for average shooters. It has the energy and trajectory and the recoil is hardly more than a 270 or 30-06.But...I still like my 300 Win better, I have both.

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

rembo if you have your doubts about someone being able to hit a deer at 400-500yds consistantly go to a Marine Corps rifle range when I joined the USMC at 17 I couldnt beleave I was going to have to shoot a .223 with peep sights at 500yds at the rifle range. If you ever get to watch marines shoot youll see the hit a man target at that range all day long. Whats this got to do with 7mmRUM vise 300RUM. just this if the right guy is behind a rifle he knows how to shoot the long shots arn't unresonable and I really like the idea of having a gun that I know can reach out, if just by luck that 180BC walks out at say 475yds and stands still for just a sec................BTW I have had a 7mmSTW and now have a .300RUM and prefer the .300RUM for verious resons list earlyer

3DNWV

Edited by - 3DNWV on 10/29/2002 07:58:10

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

3DNWV, I have no doubts that anyone including "stonecold" can't hit a deer at 400 yards. The point I was trying to make was that if someone had doubts about hitting a deer at 400 yards+ with a 7mm Rem Mag, the 7 Ultra Mag wasn't going to guarantee a hit."stonecold" responded that the rifle was his concern, not the cartridge.I know that people shoot long range all the time.I have hit gophers at over 350 yards with a 22-250 and that's a pretty small target,so hitting a deer at 400 shouldn't be that hard if the shooter is up to the task.But it's a big "if".Adding a couple inches of trajectory is not going to make a shooter into a long range sniper.Practice and knowing your rifle and it's trajectory will.

Edited by - rembo on 10/29/2002 08:04:13

Edited by - rembo on 10/29/2002 08:05:06

Edited by - rembo on 10/29/2002 08:05:44

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

I shot a 300 ultra mag all last year and decided to try the 7 rum this year. So far to me there is no comparison, the 7 flat out shoots my 300. It has less recoil and less muzzle jump and from everything I have seen shoots flatter. Thats just my 2 cents!

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

<BLOCKQUOTE id=quote<font size=1 face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' id=quote>quote:<hr height=1 noshade id=quote>
Actually it may surprise some to know that at 300 and 400 yards a 160 lauched at 3100 from a 7 Rem Mag will shoot flatter and have more energy than a 180 from a 300 Win Mag at launched at 3100.

My Barnes ballistics program shows the following.

.284&quot; 160,BC of .468 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard vero

300 yards,Velocity:2491,Energy:2204,Trajectory:-6.17&quot;
400 yards,V.......:2306.E.....:1889,Trajectory:-17.95&quot;

.308&quot; 180,BC of .410 at 3100fps muzzle vel, 200 yard zero

300 yards,Velocity:2411,Energy:2066,Trajectory:-6.42&quot;
400 yards,V.......:2206,E.....:1728,Trajectory:-18.84&quot;

Now....you could load a 200 gr bullet in the 300 with a similiar BC to the 160 gr 284&quot; and launch it at 3100 from an Ultra Mag or possibly from a long barrelled 300 Weatherby and it will keep up with the 160 .284&quot; bullet and maybe surpass it.The only tradeoff is recoil.This is why the 7mm Rem Mag is such a good all around cartridge for average shooters. It has the energy and trajectory and the recoil is hardly more than a 270 or 30-06.But...I still like my 300 Win better, I have both.


Problem is, it is quite difficult to launch a 160gr bullet from a 7mm Rem Mag at 3100fps. Realistically, you're looking at 2900fps from this cartridge with that bullet. The 7mm RUM, however, or even the 7mm Wby Mag, can do this with no problem. So can the .270 Wby Mag, and the .277 cal bullet, because of higher SD, hits with greater energy and a flatter trajectory than all the others.


<hr height=1 noshade id=quote></BLOCKQUOTE id=quote></font id=quote><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2 id=quote>

Good Dogwork and Good Hunting

Edited by - seattlesetters on 11/13/2002 01:10:39

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

I just wanted to know if propmahn has ever hunted black tail deer in the rolling hills of nothern california. I took several at over 400 yards with my 300 ultra mag and would not use anything less. Generally speaking and hunting most states that is not the norm. But sometimes you need to be able to reach out and touch someone. To each his own. Thats what makes this contry so great.

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

Problem is, it is quite difficult to launch a 160gr bullet from a 7mm Rem Mag at 3100fps. Realistically, you're looking at 2900fps from this cartridge with that bullet. The 7mm RUM, however, or even the 7mm Wby Mag, can do this with no problem. So can the .270 Wby Mag, and the .277 cal bullet, because of higher SD, hits with greater energy and a flatter trajectory than all the others.


[/quote]

3100 from a 7mm Rem Mag is not doable? I've only loaded 140's in mine at 3300+ so I think 160's at 3100 shouldn't be impossible.If,like you say the 7mm Weatherby can do it then the 7mm Rem Mag will as it holds more powder than the Weatherby case.Surely someone here has loaded the 7mm rem Mag 160 to 3100.Tell us about it.

Good Dogwork and Good Hunting

Edited by - seattlesetters on 11/13/2002 01:10:39
[/quote]

RE: 7mm Ultra Mag vs. the 300 Ultra Mag
 

I agree with Rembo. I worked up some 150NBT with 61.g of IMR 4895 CCI 250 Lrg Mag primers with new PMC brass shot out of a Ruger M77 SS and could only muster 3020. Deadly accurate. Still working up some 300 Ultra Mag with 165 NBT.