Disappointing outcome..
 

So after reading on different comments about the distance from the bullet to the lands and how it could make a rifle more accurate, I decided to get the Stoney Point O.A.L. gauge with the modified brass for the different cartridge I shoot. I was happy when the parcel finally came in.

Last night I decided to check it out. I was trying to be very careful in taking measurements as to making sure I was doing it correctly. After it was all said and done the result came out that the bullets would be to long to fit into the clips if I would try to make it close to the lands. Now I know. Has this happen to anyone else and what else can I use this gauge for ?

RE: Disappointing outcome..
 

You can still use the guage to check the OAL of your cartridges!! This just lets you know that you have to make them to fit in your magazine, not your chamber. Guns these days are being built like that so you can't get a cartridge that is too long for the chamber into the magazine. Keep the guage, and put it to good use by making sure each cartridge is of consistent length from the next one. Or you can just send it my way:D

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So Charlie, what’s your address, just kidding of course. I’ll keep it just for checking lengths of bullets or something....;)

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Almost all my calibers cannot reach the lands and still fit in my mag. But every once in a while you find one that has a real short neck like my 7mm08. Thats where the stoney point comes in handy.

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I've run into this issue more times than not. At this point, I just don't get too concerned about seating the bullet close to the lands....I usually go with the recommended COL in the loading tables. Accuracy doesn't seem to be a problem, even in my long-throated Yugo Mauser. The recommended COL will usually fit in the magazine, in my experience - so I let this be the determining factor.

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You can still use it, different brand bullets and even different weights of the same brand will have different C.O.L. and not all of them will use the magazine length as the C.O.L. I just loaded up some 110gr Hornady SP at 3600 fps for my 300 WSM and the C.O.L wasshorter than the magazine length. If you ever get a single shot you will not have a magazine length to limit the C.O.L. My Ruger #1 in 7x57 mauser has a very long C.O.L. of 3.147" with a 150gr BST. it looks funny but it increases the case capacity.

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To tell you the true facts,for the MOST part about getting your bullet seated next to your rifling is not needed. According to the Nosler company that did a real long extensive tests on this theory came to the conclusion that this didn,t help accuracy at all.All it did was increase chamber pressures and or Velocity was all. Your new purchase was in a good thought but they have your money now. Just reload your shells to the OAL and you,ll be fine. just passing it on. vangunsmith

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I would love to understand nosler's idea about that.Bench shooters strive to be right in the rifling with outstanding results.I have found most of the timeguns with long throatsare much more finicky that rifles with short throats where you can get close to the rifling. I found the need toneck turn and check concentricity when dealing with weatherbythroaghts or even RUMthroats. I seriously doubt that remington has to contend with remington and winchester brass on thier extensive testing. And if they really do hold that position, then I am very disappointed and doubt I will take much what they say seriously.
Anybody with much experience with various calibers knows different.

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BC,I have heard many times from bench shooters, that the way the bullet strikes
the rifling thats the way it's going to print andcome out. They like for the bullet
to be aleast .025 to .030 off the rifling. .020 is the thickness of a matchbook cover.
Weatherby has 3/8" freebore. If the bullet cants .001 or .002 before it prints on the
rifling the rifling is not going to straighten it out.

Hey, for hunting, I'm not going to worry if I am 1/4" from the rifling.

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Benchrest shooters also have purpose build rifles with custom cut, short throat, tightnecked chambers.Comparing theneeds of highly customized BR rifle shooting specialized, precision handloaded cartridges to the off-the-shelf rifle that thetypical handloader loads for is likecomparingthe needs of annitro drag car to aToyota Camry. Apples and oranges.

I can't see how you can just arbitrarily dismiss the findings of a study by a company like Nosler, especially considering that the results of their studyhave no impact on their bottom line, just because their findings don't coincide with your opinion or limited(relatively speaking) experience.Nosler hasa proven reputation forquality, accurate bullets, and with access to the extensiveballistic lab facilities, a huge assortment oftest firearms inalmost every available cartridge, and a staffof trained ballisticians and engineers who develop more loads from scratch in a year than mostof uswill work upin their lifetime.

Unlike yourexperience, I've found that with every cartridge I've handloaded for (and my experience is also limited I'll admit), seating depth has been non-critical. I've found that with the right load I can make every rifle I own shootjust as wellwith thebullets seated outnear thelands as I can with the bulletsseated to fit inthe magazine, but all my rifles are off-the-shelf. If I had a precision BR rifle things might be different.

Mike

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Thanks guys for your information. I don’t think it was a complete waste of $$ but at least I now know what the out come was.

Gundigest, I do have a T/C in a 350 Rem. mag and also checked it out and the result on that was that the C.O.L would have been very long. The bullet would have barely been pressed in the brass. Ah well , live and learn.

I hope this doesn't become a heated subject just because of little old me

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I dismiss it drift from my experience. I have worked up so many loads, I can't count them. And I have started my COL real low and work my way up and almost in every circumstance, closer the better. Guns I have that have real short chambers always shoot better. Weatherby and RUMchambers with long throats are not near as dynamic.

I mean should I believe readings, and tests from some company or what I see in real life??

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I'm not saying at all that you should ignore your experiences, but rather that you shouldn't completely and arbitrarilydismiss the findings of others, perticularly those based on the research of a major ballistics lab, just because their findings don't exactly correspond with your personal observations. Very likely, there is truth to both theories, under certain circumstances.

Mike

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True, my sako 75 7mmSTW does defy this. It has quite a bit of freebore but still shoots well. I am not totally dismissing, but have found out you need straight consistent ammo with large freebore guns to get them to shoot really well. Where my 308's 7mm08, I could just jam a bullet in the brass and let it fly with good results.

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I think it might, then, be more correct to say that freebore and bullet seating depth doesn't matter as long as the chamber is cut true and the bullets are seated with minimal runout. I can also see your point that, in the presense of excessive runout or an imperfectly aligned chamber (which I think is might be more common than one might expect in factory rifles), seating a bullet closer to the lands mightminimise theeffect that these imperfections would have on accuracy. TheNosler study probably utilized very goodquality handloads with minimal runout and good quality rifles and test barrels with true chambers. It doesn't completely invalidate their study if this were the case, but it does add qualifications.

Mike

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agreed

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I have a problem with this discussion, Nosler the company who did this study will knowingly admit and recomend the Partition be set aganst the lands for best accuracy, they will also explain the profile of the Partitionrequires you set theOALabove specs.

As a precision rifle shooter I've investigated this issue and tested the issue,OAL does effect accuracy. To test this buy a box of whatever is on sale at local gunshop, use kenitic bullet pullet to tap the bullets out a ways of 17 of the bulletsand reset the OAL in incriments of whatever, just make sure you have exactly 3 in each incriment. Shoot the first 3 in factory length and save target, shoot remaining groups of 3 and save targets. This will be very impartical because the ammowas loaded by whoever, you just set the OAL. Somewhere along the way you will have one group of 3 that was better than the rest, and that is the best for your gun.

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That is good info regarding the Nosler testing I have always questioned the bullet seating depths importance, but never heard of anyone quantifying and comparing the results. That sounds like one lessvariable to consider.

PS: Did they mention whether seating the bullets further in the case increased or decreased case presssure?

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I,m sure Nosler know more about it than most!!Yah Wbys are real bad about the product they have had on the market,thats why they advertize the gun will shoot a best group on the market. Apparently some peoples even bench shooters seem to kknow more than the companies that test and make these products. Benchrest shooters for the most part,go through to much dittling around to try and make there gun shoot better because,there is something always wrong with the gun!! Not trying to improve there skills,its always the gun.No need talking to a wall anyway. Why don,t you go work for these people and you tell them what to do?? I don,t have to if thats what you think,for i have worked for them,and in the know a little better then most!

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So I, nor anyone on here shouldn't post my/our results and experiences cause Nosler is a huge big ole company and how could I ever compare to that???? I don't understand your post. Maybe you could spell it out for me. I have wonderful results several times over. My way is working great. I thought I would share my way with trailer and I did. Its really up to him to decide to take me up on my experiences. Should I change all my loads cause somebody from Nosler says so, when I have called tech support from Nosler several times and got several different opinions on thismatter in the past several years?

Sierra is a prime example of different veiws, different people.

Now if you have a question and I have experienced something with the question, I can try to tell you my results. Or maybe you can only take advise from a big ole company only and not find out for yourself???? Who knows.

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By the way, have you ever sent a gun back to weatherby, very painful and did not fix the problems. I ended up selling and now have a sako 75. No more problems.

When you get older one day, you will learn to not believe every marketing thing out there. Especially if its on print.

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We are all glad that you share with us on what you have found that works for you..In tha respect thats what all of us are doing,is it not!Everybody strives to do better,and looks for answers to problems. Sometimes the experts are right,for thats what they do for a living.One must not challenge everything nor put it under a microscope nor a good pair of glasses if the facts are there.

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Just wondered did you read about Wby rifles before you bought one? You must have to llike them,and you believed what they said? Then look in the mirror! I do have quite a few yrs on you and i was a top professional in the trade before you entered the scene.How many guns have you cut a chamber in? Repaired(professionally) and never had any come backs in 40yrs.? Just admit YOU don,t know it all,nor will i but give some people a little credit,rather giving all to yourself!!

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Van, we disagree here. Its that simple. All I can account for is what works for me. And worked well. I can't give you credit, as I have not encountered your chambers or reamers, or anything about you. My gunsmiths, both disagree with you. They both mainly build varmit rifles. They both are around 60. So should I take the advise of only you, an internet poster or people who has built rifles for me, that has worked great? It really that simple. You want me to listen to all you say. But I can't, your just like me, a faceless internet poster.

I would love to give you credit, but havn't seen or heard of your work ever.

All this page is, is opinions. People can take it or leave it.

It doesn't take a gunsmith to build a good load or tell them what works for them. My gunsmith looks for me alot to report my loads with new calibers. That may work fine for nosler, but I have been there and done that.

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I,m sure you have been there,and done that.I haven,t heard of your gunsmiths,but i have worked for the big names in the business,and have taught gunsmith school,in one of the top schools in the country.I,m sure your gunsmiths are fine,and have done a great job on your varmit rifles. They are fun to shoot,as well as big game here,out west. No know how much hunting they have in Maryland,but many i have met while working in Wash.D.C. i noted that nobody on the east coast thinks that anybody west of the hudson river knows anything.Just an observation while there. The observation is that i am talking about you,not your gunsmiths that do work for you.You haven,t been there,and you haven,t done that!Thank God!!You have to tell your gunsmith,what all your results are,then how does he know what to do? Does he get all his info from you? If so,then i see why you like him so much!!Two bodies and one mind,and he isn,t using his. Lets just as you stated in the past!!Try to keep a distance from each other,and as of the present the seperation of the east coast and west coast is just fine with me!I will tell my friends,and you can tell yours. I don,t really need to help people or at least try to help them,but i was trying to do so. I know you will also maintain your ability to tell everyone the truth according to you. Be my guest,and i still will enjoy to humor myself,with future words of wisdom from you.:eek::eek::eek::eek::eek:

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Not from MD. From Ky. lived in Tx, Chicago, and NC. Thanks Van, you helped me show my point very well.

Its not quite the way you portray. I can help you understand thistrivial situation. Onegun I had built. My gunsmith built a 300RUM for me right when they came out. He never worked up a load for that round. There are not too many smiths that has shot every round there is.So he calls to checkup to make sure his customer is happy. And has another customer wanting that round. So I explain to him where I hit pressure signs, powders I used and long range results. He noted to see if the short throats are better or if the standard clymer reamer with freebore was ok. Cause he was considering having another made for him with a very short throat.Also wanted to know results from Newfoundland where I go moose hunting and Wy pronghorn. Samewith WSM's. Do you expect every gunsmith to own every caliber he has evercut? Kinda unrealistic. I have not bought varmit calibers from either. I just know thats what they love to do. Which really has nothing to do with anything but for some strange reason you brought it up. But anyway, I don't think the situation is very odd, having a gunsmith check up on his customers and curious about feedback of a rifle and maybe what loads shot the best. It may be odd to you. Who knows about you.

Don't go down to DC or New York, can't help you understand the people there. I am sure they are not as you portray. Probably all fine people, just dont run in there circles.

I guess I am not sure what you are wanting? I work in CO or spend alot of time in the West. So I can't abide to your request.I put down and work on the fiber you use to talk on the phone. So yes you need me out there. And I think I fit in nicely in the mountainsout there.Never knew you from west or whatever since you don't post your location. Never understood that from people, but whatever.

Van, your a strange cat, thats for sure. But God Bless ya anyway. Wish you the best of luck with yourgunsmithing business.

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You stated that you were from maryland in your bio,thats why i said maryland.No biggy,I can see that no matter what you Always have to have the last word.Just one simple question. Do you ever admit though when your wrong??? Do you really enjoy burning up all that unneeded powder,just so you can shoot a RUM? Well enough of this tit for tat,im above that. You have a good night,good day tommorow,and great hunting trips in the future.And thats the rest of the story.

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Yea, the 300RUM was pretty fun. I enjoyed it and its performanceis amazing at long range on moose. But its very hard on barrels. And I didn't enjoy that. I currently have a house in MD. Got to move where the work is, and it moves often.