Question from a future beginner
 

How hard is it to start off in reloading wanting to match grade handload. Is it imposible or possible? What procedures make a match grade handloaded bullet.

Also I am going to start ordering my equipment. Where is THE place to order reloading supplies? Also, if I want to match grade reload is there any special equipment that I should buy other than the regular equipment.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

I hate to say it, but its impossible. You can lucky with just the right load.

Unless you got a buddy to give you pointers, its a learning process. Whats important, whats not important.

I know I wanted the same when I started. And made alot of mistakes over trying to be perfect from the start. I hope you got a few people to help you get started. Some books will make you go crazy.

For match grade, bullet runout, and neckrunout will be your biggest enemies. I have seen alot of people start reloading, and most all wants to take shortcuts where they shouldn't, but put so much effort into things that give you miniscule gains.

For example one new loader, I seen was trying to lock down his locknut on his dies so he wouldn't have to set them up again. His shoulders was different eachloading. And he couldn't shoot the same ammo in different rifles. Setting your shoulder the same everytime is important. A head and shoulders gauge from stoney point will help this.

Then others put so much effort in loading .001" from the rifling and gets themselfs into trouble. Others have neglected chamfering and neck lube, to have necks pulled all out of wack. You could see the bullet wobble by spinning in thier hands.
This is where my concentricity gauge is great. You can actually see you mistakes.

I regret alot of things I have bought. I regreted digital scales to only send them back. I have regreted compitition necks sizing dies, neck turning tools, neck thickness gauges. But one thing I don't regret is a heads and shoulders gauge and bullet comparitor and real nice calibers. Also my concentricity gauge I love too.

Key to match grade is repeatability. You can always adjust the load for accuracy.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

It is mostlya matter of experience and knowledge but good equipment is a must.A good teacher is invaluable but trial and error is still part of the learning curve.The more experience and knowledge that you obtain,the easier it will be to develop high quality loads.All of that takes time so,if you are asking if it is likely that you will be loading top quality loads in short order,I have to say that it is not likely without a good teacher guiding you.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

I wouldn't say it's impossible to load match grade ammo right off the bat, but it does take proper equipment and quality components and it is going to be unlikely that you'll achieve these results until you've had some time to experiment with the intricacies of handloading. When I got started my desires were much like yours. Although I had no plans to enter shooting matches, I wanted top notch accuracy nevertheless. I knew I didn't want some cheap starter kit, not even the RCBS Rockchucker kit, which I'm sure is very nice. I wanted the best single piece of equipment for each particular job. So, I did some research and askedquite a few questions oninternet forums. Eventually Iassembled a list of equipment and e-mailed it to Sinclair Int'l to see what theythought. The gentleman who called me back was very helpful. He agreed with most ofthe items on my equipment list, but suggested substitutions for some other things on it. So, I ended up ordering all my initial equipment from them and since then I've added several other things and usually, but not always, I'll order it from Sinclair.

That's all I've got time to say right now. I'll try to get back on later to see if you've got any specific questions. I highly recommend, though, that you get in touch with the folks at Sinclair Int'l. They're good to deal with. There are other good outfits out there too, but I just prefer Sinclair. Take a look at their website:

www.sinclairintl.com

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

I know it will be difficult but my goal is to make the best cartrige for my rifles. If precision equipment will help me off the bat that is what I would like to start off with. Can someone give me a run down on precision equipment (everything) that I will need to take me from step one to a finished load?

Also, is there a BEST "How To" book out there that can bring me from Step one to the finished process of loading a Match Grade Bullet?

Thanks

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

I am pretty new to re-loading but I have done pretty good to this point. Now, I havent tried to gte to match grade or anything, but my loads are consistent. I re-load due to the affordability factor. I cant afford to buy 2 boxes every two weeks. Anyway, the books really help, and as well, practice shooting a bunch with a chronograph. I am working up an elk hunting load and am finding out that it is a long process. Fun though, EJ

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

Actually ,once you get used to developing loads,the process isrelatively simple and not astime consuming as you might think.The keyis being able to see pressure signs and being able to interpret your groups.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

I'd suggest you first off learn to make safe loads.....in the process you just might discover a lot about accuracy.

Further don't get the mistaken impression that reloading is the key to accuracy.....IT'S NOT!!! It's one component and won't compensate for a rifles poor bedding or other flaws.....make sure your rifle is capable of delivering the accuracy you are striving for before trying to achieve something from ammo that isn't in the cards.

You've asked a good question and there's no simple answer. You can drive yourself batty trying to solve a problem with the wrong component.

One more thing.....have a reasonable standard to shoot for...remember that a helluva lot more 1/2" groups are fired on the internet than at any bench.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

what are you shooting for a rifle?... you keep talking about match grade ammo, do you have a match grade chamber and barrel to shoot it out of?... if not get that match grade out of your mind for now... without the appropriate bullet launcher, match grade is like putting lipstick on a sow...

if you do have an appropriate launcher then there are custommicrometer dies that will assist in custom crafting ammo... be prepared to spend atleast 3 times as much for the micro dies as a set of good standard dies though... you'll want a top quality electronic scales for weighing powder, bullets and cases... you need a primer pocket uniformer, and a flashhole reamer to clean up the inside of the primer holes and uniform the flash holes... lets not forget case trimmers, neck turners to uniform the necks, plus deburring tools for inside and outside the neck... a good digital readout calipers is also essential for checking measurements, and don't forget a comparator for making sure bullets, case necks etc are all in line... I'm thinking you can round up all this stuff for about $1200 or a bit more...

if you're loading for an off the shelf rifle, get a RCBS Rockchucker set up and have at it... consistency in your loading technique and experimenting with different bullet, powder, primer combo's will tell you where you're getting your best results from... you'll still need to do case prep work though at the primer end to insure consistent ignition...

reloading can get as intense or as much fun as you want to make it... personally I like to make it fun, otherwise it's not worth doing...

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

The rifle is a Remington Model 700 Scendero chambered in the 7mm RUM. Since there is only one cartridge that is made factory now. Reloading is the way I need to move.

I have a custome muzzel break and had a trigger job done on the rifle. I have a custom match grade rifle builder down the road from me. I will be bringing him my rifle in the near future to determine what else if anything I can do this rifle to get what I am looking for.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

The rifle shot well this weekend and am satisfied with it. I will be reloading my own cartriges in the near future. This is why I am asking for the list of equipment. A friend of mine is reloading for me now but I would wrather do it myself.

Just forget I asked, it seems that asking questions around here is just an invite for someone to grill you.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

Vapodog, I couldnt agree more. So many more half inch groups live here than on the range. Heck, I cant get better than 2 inch group from a laying down position at 100 yards. I dont think its the ammo that keeps my groups spread out, it is me. Anyway, I am of the opinion that most rifles are pretty accureate and load recipie has a bunch to do with accureacy, but the shooter must get it close to start! EJ

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

Stone Cold - If your friend already reloads for you, and you are satisfied with how it shot this weekend, then talk with your friend about what equipment he uses to reload that ammunition for your rifle, and then duplicate the loads. I have read some books dedicated solely to bench rest shooting. I can't remember the last one, but it was titled "How the Benchresters Do It," or something like that. (for those out there that might have it, it is about 500 pages long, and kind of green/blue/black in color, soft bount). Anyway, that book is loaded with information that you would not be able to gather over the internet in a lifetime of trying. Handloader's Digest 18th Edition has an article dedicated to that also, "Are Benchrest Loading Techniques Worth the Trouble?" That article pretty much determined that it wasn't worth the effort for hunting grade ammunition.

Now, I ask you some more questions. And, don't get mad because I am, you started this thread, and people suggested some equipment that you would need, and you want us to "forget you asked," when we are trying to help you determine if it would be worth it for you to reload for "match grade ammunition."

So, here goes:
What is the primary intention of the rifle? What is your definition of"match grade?" The reason I ask - that Sendero will probably shoot 1" groups all day long every day with a handload that can be produced with an RCBS Rock-chucker kit, and a set of calipers and a Stoney-Point guage to get the bullet within, say .010" of the rifling. (heck, even .020" would probably work fine). So, do you plan to shoot matches with this rifle? Or do you just want a really accurate hunting rifle? Rockfish1 gave you a good list of equipment on top of a standard reloading kit that you would need to reload for maximum accuracy. But you have to really be wanting to spend the money. Also, if you are wanting to make a match rifle, you had best stick with match bullets, and plan to work up two loads if you want to use that gun for hunting also, which means twice the development, and twice the money in components, and twice the time involved. Now, you might get lucky, and get that RUM to shoot some 140 Nosler Partitions (a quality deer bullet in that cartridge, IMO), really good, and it will kill deer, but a 175 grain match bullet will be a very poor choice for deer at the velocities the RUM can produce!

Don't take all that the wrong way, but you asked, and I gave my opinion, and quite honestly, I know of some people that load for matches (USPSA 3 gun shoots, and single pistol shoots), and use nothing more that standard RCBS, Dillon (a little more expensive, but not overly priced), and other quality gear, without the REALLY fancy, smancy doo-dads that will get the neck of a chamber within .000001" of round, and do just fine!:D

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

Here's a listofequipmentI use. I hopethis is helpful to you. And BTW, in my earlier post I was assuming you were using the term "match gradehandload" as a manner of speaking to mean substantially better thannormal accuracy. You don't have the rifle to achieve true competitive match grade accuracy, butwith it you may be able to achieve a level of accuracy that's quite acceptable to you.It may (and probably will) require some more accuracy tweeks, though.

Here's what I use:

Press: Forster Co-Ax
Seating dies: Redding Competition Micrometer or Forster Ultra
Full length dies: Forster or Redding
Neck die: Lee Collet neck die
Primer pocket uniformer: Sinclair
Flash hole deburrer: Sinclair
Concentricity gauge: Sinclair
Neck turner and thickness gauge: K & M
Trimmer: Wilson
Case neck deburrer: Wilson
Scale: Redding No. 2 Master beam scale
Powder trickler: Redding
Calipers: Starrett
Priming tool: RCBS APS hand primer
Case Lube: Imperial wax (this isn't needed when using the Lee neck die)

*Note: Some dies (like the Redding Competition seater)for longer cartridges like yours may not work with the Forster Co-Ax press. So be advised.

There's probably something I left off. If I think of it I'll add it in another post later. I hope that sort of gives you an idea of what's involved as far as equipment is concerned. You can even buy better, but then you're getting into high dollar (and more obscure) equipment made for competitors and with the limitations of your rifle, I don't see how it could be worth it.

If you want to learn more about extreme accuracy I suggest you buy one of the books available from Sinclair Int'l.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

Stone Cold, about special equipment you need for match grade reloads.... I would first start with some well made basic equipment and try some load combinations. You might be able to satisfy your accuracy requirements without spending too much money. Like a race car, the money and effort you spend getting better performance seems to increase exponentiallyas compared to the results.You could very quickly reach a point, even with solid, basic reloading equipment,where the gunis the limiting factor in your quest formatch grade ammo.

About what procedures makes match grade ammo.... compatibility and concistency.Only experimentationcan prove what combination of bullets, powder, primers, seating depth, etc. your rifle willshoot best.(It may help to set a goal for yourself, you could wear out a barrelor chamber before you tried all the possible combinations!)Of course when you find what works, being able to load consistently is the key to accurate ammo.

A good starting place for equipment is Sinclair International, andI have foundboth Sierra and Nosler to make some very accurate bullets.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

OK, Guys,

My comment above has nothing to do with your comments or this thread. I posted another thread about my day of shooting and it seems that I was grilled and basically called a liar just because of my shooting capabilities. These few guys upset me enough to the point of not wanting to ask for any more help. If you want to see what I was talking about go to my other thread.

Thanks and sorry for the generalized statement.

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

Charlie Brown,

The gun is now being used for hunting and shooting at the range. I wanted a match grade hunting load or at least the closest I could get. My current shooting club is installing a 600 and a 1000 yard range and I would like to shoot on these ranges also with this rifle basically to see what it would do. If I decide to shoot matches in the future I will most probably have a custom rifle built.

Thanks

RE: Question from a future beginner
 

In that case then, get a standard reloading set, duplicate the loads your friend loads for you, and go shooting. It is not likely that you will be taking 600 or 1000 yard shots at a live game animal, so you aren't going to NEED that much accuracy. Punching paper is a lot different than shooting at a live game animal, and ethics, morals, and respect for the animals come into play. Heck, I even shoot my .223 at 500 yards at sillouettes, for the fun of it. And thats with an out of the box H&R:D