.22 for coyote hunting?
01-09-2014, 05:14 AM
#12
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
*** Most "in the know" consider the .22 mag to still be on the low side and if they are only having "decent" results that should tell them to step up to a larger gun so the animal is dispatched right there and doesn't run off. I've heard some say on topics like this that "it's only a yote" and that doesn't sit well with me or others who want a humane kill regardless of what animal it is! This has been an excellent thread with very good info. for someone who is inexperienced with varmint hunting. Good job everyone!
01-09-2014, 05:26 AM
#13
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 12
I've heard some say on topics like this that "it's only a yote" and that doesn't sit well with me or others who want a humane kill regardless of what animal it is!
I work in bio-medical research and when training staff I make it clear that it is not "just a mouse...or just a rat", and they will be expected to always treat them with respect and assure that they have a humane end. That goes for all species.
01-09-2014, 08:24 AM
#15
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Kansas
Posts: 3,905
.22WMR is a different animal than the 22lr, but it's still not a proper coyote hunting rifle.
The .22WMR buys ~30-50yrds of extra range over the 22lr, but it's still not a great option.
The biggest reason you hear about so many of us using rimfires for coyotes is NOT because we bought rimfire rifles with the intention of calling coyotes with them. It just turns out that a lot of us have bunny guns, and decide to try them out for coyotes from time to time. Anyone that buys a rimfire with the intention of calling coyotes with it is either misinformed or mislead.
The "second biggest" reason you hear about it is that a lot of guys live in "Rimfire Only" zones, where they can't use centerfire rifles at all.
Then of course, there's the source of the misinformation, quite often being the ammo manufacturers. Hard to sell a rimfire rifle, or the ammo to feed it, if it's limited to a narrow band of bunnies and squirrels. But if they advertise that it's a great round for coyotes, especially in this hyped up predator hunting fad we're in now, it sells.
It doesn't make sense to me for someone to go BUY a rimfire rifle and intentionally limit themselves unless their regulations require it. A 22lr is only good to 50yrds, a 22WMR or .17HMR are only good to 100ish yards. Frankly, the new .17WSM is impressive, but a 20grn pill doesn't thrill me at 200yrds, no matter how fast it left the muzzle. A .223rem, on the other hand, will kill coyotes at ranges further than any hunter should be taking shots. I have a few 500-700yrd coyote kills with a .223rem, but I had to intentionally plan my sets to give me shots that long, and of course, had to have the right bullet to do the job and the shooting skill to give it a ride to work. I'd venture that there's never been a time that I really needed to shoot over 250yrds for coyotes. If I did, then it was my fault for planning my set poorly.
The long and short of it is this: In a pinch, if I have a nail to drive and a wrench at hand, I can drive a nail with a wrench. But that doesn't make it a hammer.
If I have a nail to drive and NOTHING at hand, it doesn't make sense to go buy a wrench to drive that nail. I should just buy the proper tool for the job at hand; the hammer.
So if you have a rimfire and want to try something new, limit yourself accordingly, and have fun. If you're buying a rifle, or are going to get serious about hunting coyotes, get the proper rifle. Get a centerfire.
The .22WMR buys ~30-50yrds of extra range over the 22lr, but it's still not a great option.
The biggest reason you hear about so many of us using rimfires for coyotes is NOT because we bought rimfire rifles with the intention of calling coyotes with them. It just turns out that a lot of us have bunny guns, and decide to try them out for coyotes from time to time. Anyone that buys a rimfire with the intention of calling coyotes with it is either misinformed or mislead.
The "second biggest" reason you hear about it is that a lot of guys live in "Rimfire Only" zones, where they can't use centerfire rifles at all.
Then of course, there's the source of the misinformation, quite often being the ammo manufacturers. Hard to sell a rimfire rifle, or the ammo to feed it, if it's limited to a narrow band of bunnies and squirrels. But if they advertise that it's a great round for coyotes, especially in this hyped up predator hunting fad we're in now, it sells.
It doesn't make sense to me for someone to go BUY a rimfire rifle and intentionally limit themselves unless their regulations require it. A 22lr is only good to 50yrds, a 22WMR or .17HMR are only good to 100ish yards. Frankly, the new .17WSM is impressive, but a 20grn pill doesn't thrill me at 200yrds, no matter how fast it left the muzzle. A .223rem, on the other hand, will kill coyotes at ranges further than any hunter should be taking shots. I have a few 500-700yrd coyote kills with a .223rem, but I had to intentionally plan my sets to give me shots that long, and of course, had to have the right bullet to do the job and the shooting skill to give it a ride to work. I'd venture that there's never been a time that I really needed to shoot over 250yrds for coyotes. If I did, then it was my fault for planning my set poorly.
The long and short of it is this: In a pinch, if I have a nail to drive and a wrench at hand, I can drive a nail with a wrench. But that doesn't make it a hammer.
If I have a nail to drive and NOTHING at hand, it doesn't make sense to go buy a wrench to drive that nail. I should just buy the proper tool for the job at hand; the hammer.
So if you have a rimfire and want to try something new, limit yourself accordingly, and have fun. If you're buying a rifle, or are going to get serious about hunting coyotes, get the proper rifle. Get a centerfire.
01-24-2016, 01:51 AM
#17
Spike
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 1
22 mag verses 22LR ???
I'd be surprised if you don't have a proper choke for buckshot. 00 buck will run best out of an improved or light modified choke, basically what most guys will upland game hunt with. It'll put dogs down out to 50yrds with confidence. Given the choice between a 12ga with 00buckshot and a 22lr rifle right before a hunt, I'd take the 12ga every day of the week (00buck is like 8-15 shots of 22 MAG at THE SAME TIME).
Beyond that, yes, .22lr will kill a coyote, but so will a pointy stick. I've killed dozens of coyotes over the last 20yrs+ with .22lr, and will say that you will not be happy with the results. Even well hit, the dogs will run. Depending on your terrain, that might mean you don't recover ANY of them, or can't confirm that you even killed them straight off.
I've shot a lot of coyotes with both headshots and heart/lung shots with the .22, and I'll be honest, I'm not sure which is really the best recommendation. Headshots are hard because the target is so small and surrounded by structured bone, and heart shots rely on good penetration then bleeding out to kill.
A lot of hunters might be surprised by this, but hollow points are NOT the proper bullet. Penetration is pathetic, they'll mushroom flat on anything hard, and it doesn't take much muscle to drag them to a stop. CCI Mini-mags have been my go to coon and coyote load for at least 15yrs that I can recall.
The brainbox on a coyote is somewhere in the 1-1.5" diameter and the margin for error is small (a miss by a half inch might as well be a mile). Unless you can guarantee you WILL hit them in the brain, not just in the head, you shouldn't take a head shot. I typically only place headshots when I'm shooting from a rest with a very accurate rifle, under 50yrds. Usually only under 30yrds. I have recovered LOTS of slugs from the brow bone of coyotes and coons that failed to penetrate the skull. A successful headshot puts them down where shot, a half inch miss just punches a hole in their ear or jacks up their jaw, leaving them to starve. I've killed quite a few coyote over the years with "pierced ears", usually assuming it was from a missed shot.
Heartshots offer a lot bigger target and a bit better margin for error, but you'll still need to be close enough to deliver the energy to penetrate to and through the heart. This won't put them down right there, but they'll often spin themselves into the dirt or run out pretty quickly. Even though the target is bigger, the measly energy of the 22lr means you still can't be very far downrange, 50yrds or so.
I would never intentionally take a lung shot on a coyote with a 22lr. In my experience, that is a guarantee for a run off dog that I don't recover.
Out of all of the coyotes I've killed AND RECOVERED with a .22lr, I'd venture that 95% of them were within 50yrds. Similarly, I'd venture that I've recovered less than 10% of the 75-125yrd "pot shots" at coyotes in my cattle pastures with a .22lr, even knowing that I connected with the shot.
Moral of the story: if for some reason you really don't own an improved choke for your shotgun, then buy one. It'll be leaps and bounds more productive than a .22lr rifle for coyote hunting.
Beyond that, yes, .22lr will kill a coyote, but so will a pointy stick. I've killed dozens of coyotes over the last 20yrs+ with .22lr, and will say that you will not be happy with the results. Even well hit, the dogs will run. Depending on your terrain, that might mean you don't recover ANY of them, or can't confirm that you even killed them straight off.
I've shot a lot of coyotes with both headshots and heart/lung shots with the .22, and I'll be honest, I'm not sure which is really the best recommendation. Headshots are hard because the target is so small and surrounded by structured bone, and heart shots rely on good penetration then bleeding out to kill.
A lot of hunters might be surprised by this, but hollow points are NOT the proper bullet. Penetration is pathetic, they'll mushroom flat on anything hard, and it doesn't take much muscle to drag them to a stop. CCI Mini-mags have been my go to coon and coyote load for at least 15yrs that I can recall.
The brainbox on a coyote is somewhere in the 1-1.5" diameter and the margin for error is small (a miss by a half inch might as well be a mile). Unless you can guarantee you WILL hit them in the brain, not just in the head, you shouldn't take a head shot. I typically only place headshots when I'm shooting from a rest with a very accurate rifle, under 50yrds. Usually only under 30yrds. I have recovered LOTS of slugs from the brow bone of coyotes and coons that failed to penetrate the skull. A successful headshot puts them down where shot, a half inch miss just punches a hole in their ear or jacks up their jaw, leaving them to starve. I've killed quite a few coyote over the years with "pierced ears", usually assuming it was from a missed shot.
Heartshots offer a lot bigger target and a bit better margin for error, but you'll still need to be close enough to deliver the energy to penetrate to and through the heart. This won't put them down right there, but they'll often spin themselves into the dirt or run out pretty quickly. Even though the target is bigger, the measly energy of the 22lr means you still can't be very far downrange, 50yrds or so.
I would never intentionally take a lung shot on a coyote with a 22lr. In my experience, that is a guarantee for a run off dog that I don't recover.
Out of all of the coyotes I've killed AND RECOVERED with a .22lr, I'd venture that 95% of them were within 50yrds. Similarly, I'd venture that I've recovered less than 10% of the 75-125yrd "pot shots" at coyotes in my cattle pastures with a .22lr, even knowing that I connected with the shot.
Moral of the story: if for some reason you really don't own an improved choke for your shotgun, then buy one. It'll be leaps and bounds more productive than a .22lr rifle for coyote hunting.
My experience has only been the use of the 22mag on fox and coyote. A shot placed in the heart/lung area will eventually terminate the predator, but not always immediately! More times than most, especially coyote's will spin and run a short distance (some Foxes also). Using the small caliper 22 rimfires should only be used if you have a skiff a snow or more( for tracking after the shot) or more in my opinion. I've lost a few hit dog's in dry weather conditions over the years and that does not make for a good stand. Even if you are an expert shooter, the weather conditions are excellent I've found that the 22rimfires to not even leave a blood trail after the impact point. Let's face it, the goal is to drop the predator in its track's! Period!!! In most cases, you'll only get one shot off per stand. Rare, very rare cases to you get to fire a killing second shot. I personally use a Tikka 222/12ga o/u. I've missed but never lost a kill using this gun. Happy hunting, be safe! No animal is worth a bad mistake or accident!!
01-24-2016, 08:04 AM
#18
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
This is an old thread, but nice that it was brought up at this time of the year. Welcome newbie and nice to see that you have your head on straight regarding a humane kill on any animal. It sounds like you have the perfect setup with that shotgun/222 combo for short and long shots.
01-25-2016, 02:46 AM
#19
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: MICHIGAN
Posts: 2,568
I don't think it would have any thing to do with the time of year. Many states allow coyote hunting 12 months with no closed season. Michigan has rules.
Coyote may be taken on private property by a property owner or designee all year if they are doing or about to do damage on private property. A license or written permit is not needed.
Residents possessing a valid small game license may hunt coyote during the established season.
Michigan Coyote Hunting Season:
Statewide July 15 - April 15 with game or predator call only. Firearm may be loaded or arrow nocked only when using call.
Firearms: You may use a centerfire rifle during daytime hunting hours in the shotgun zone.
Damage Control: September 15 – October 14 – Only on private lands when doing or about to do damage; landowners and guests only; with game or predator call only; firearm may be loaded or arrow nocked only when using call.
Residents possessing a valid small game license may hunt coyote during the established season.
Special Season and dates for hunting Michigan coyotes at night: October 15 – March 1
Legal Devices: Only a bow and arrow, crossbow, .22 caliber or smaller rimfire rifle or handgun or a shotgun with loads other than buckshot, slug or cut shell.
Note: All hunters using a .22 or smaller caliber rimfire to take a furbearing animal day or night from November 10 – November 14 must have a fur harvester license.
Special restriction in shotgun zone: No rifles or handguns from November 15 – November 30.
Legal Artificial Lights: Only lights similar to the type ordinarily held in the hand or on the person. – Flashlights, portable battery powered spotlights and headlamps and similar portable lights designed to be carried in the hand or on the person are legal. The use of natural light including night vision optics and scopes is legal.
Al
Coyote may be taken on private property by a property owner or designee all year if they are doing or about to do damage on private property. A license or written permit is not needed.
Residents possessing a valid small game license may hunt coyote during the established season.
Michigan Coyote Hunting Season:
Statewide July 15 - April 15 with game or predator call only. Firearm may be loaded or arrow nocked only when using call.
Firearms: You may use a centerfire rifle during daytime hunting hours in the shotgun zone.
Damage Control: September 15 – October 14 – Only on private lands when doing or about to do damage; landowners and guests only; with game or predator call only; firearm may be loaded or arrow nocked only when using call.
Residents possessing a valid small game license may hunt coyote during the established season.
Special Season and dates for hunting Michigan coyotes at night: October 15 – March 1
Legal Devices: Only a bow and arrow, crossbow, .22 caliber or smaller rimfire rifle or handgun or a shotgun with loads other than buckshot, slug or cut shell.
Note: All hunters using a .22 or smaller caliber rimfire to take a furbearing animal day or night from November 10 – November 14 must have a fur harvester license.
Special restriction in shotgun zone: No rifles or handguns from November 15 – November 30.
Legal Artificial Lights: Only lights similar to the type ordinarily held in the hand or on the person. – Flashlights, portable battery powered spotlights and headlamps and similar portable lights designed to be carried in the hand or on the person are legal. The use of natural light including night vision optics and scopes is legal.
Al
01-25-2016, 07:15 AM
#20
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Allegan, MI
Posts: 8,019
My reference to this time of the year is because most of the seasons are closed now and people tend more to hunt them if there is nothing else to chase. IMHO MI should get rid of all the fluff in their coyote section that you have in bold and just have one sentence that allows you to kill them every day since there isn't much doubt that they are doing damage to the game populations wherever they are.