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Valorius 05-30-2020 08:15 PM

Correction: I asked her where she saw that, and she said she read it in the charging document. Charging document can be read here:

I just read it, there is a lot of "subject to interpretation" language in it. I can see why my wife interpreted it as she did, but I could see how others could interpret it differently.

Lunkerdog 05-30-2020 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by CalHunter (Post 4376648)
Mmmm. I wouldn't call it murder Valorius. That presumes Officer Chauvin pre-planned to kill George Floyd. So far, I haven't seen anything to indicate that was the case. You could argue about what level or degree of manslaughter occurred which is an unlawful killing of another human being. But a murder charge isn't supported by any of the evidence I've seen or read. Apparently the DA agrees with that based on the complaint filed which charges Officer Chauvin with manslaughter.

Cal, I'm not an LEO, or lawyer, but based on my layman's learning over the years, your above post isn't exactly correct...

There are varying degrees of murder charges... Based on what I've learned, what you've said above would be considered Premeditated, or 1st degree murder... Which would seem obvious is not the case in this instance...

The first officer charged in this case was charged with Manslaughter, and 3rd degree murder... Based on cases that I've followed in the past here in MN What I've derived is 3rd degree murder means that... An individuals actions were not intended Homicide/Murder, but both were the end result... IMHO, that's why Chauvin has been charged with Manslaughter, and 3rd degree murder... I admit my ignorance in this, but that's the gist of what I know, and am seeing...

Valorius 05-30-2020 09:53 PM

Minnesota's Murder 3 statute is just about a perfect match for what we saw on that video. I agree with Lunkerdog.

CalHunter 05-30-2020 10:42 PM

I need to be more specific. When you guys say "murder," I'm thinking of 1st degree murder, such as a person pre-planned the crime otherwise described as malice aforethought. That's on me though. I simply equate the term murder with 1st degree murder. Something I didn't see in all of the information being posted about this case. I tend to think of 2nd degree murder as simply manslaughter, homicide or the unlawful killing of a human being that wasn't planned. In my state, 2nd degree murder is often called manslaughter and is used for accidental killings like vehicle accidents, heat of the moment (passion) or involuntary which covers a person who is performing a lawful act (such as arresting or restraining an arrested subject) which might produce death in an unlawful manner (i.e., Officer Chauvin was legal to arrest Floyd and restrain Floyd but was not legal to kill Floyd). But that is on me.

Edit: After reading Minnesota's Murder in 3rd degree section, I agree with both of you. It does fit very well.

Champlain Islander 05-31-2020 02:18 PM

I wonder when the local DA will have the 3 other cops arrested as accessories which they clearly were. Once the first was charged the others should have been too. I know they want to make sure they have solid cases but since the first arrest has been done the others should follow even if a lesser charge. The country is burning and lives along with property will be lost. Things could calm down if all 4 were behind bars. I would say it is about time to do something.....

Valorius 05-31-2020 02:58 PM

I think 1 of the cops won't be charged, because in the charging document it says that he said they should roll floyd on his side, and because he took floyd's pulse and said he had no pulse and suggested Chauvin take his knee off him.

The other 2 are probably toast though.

Champlain Islander 05-31-2020 03:02 PM

The other 2 definitely had hands on the guy holding him down as seen from another angle when the killer had his knee on Floyd's neck. Boy watching live in west Philly....not good and a long time before dark.

Valorius 05-31-2020 03:33 PM

I've worked jobs in West Philly many times. Parts of it would make Mogadishu blush.

West and South-West Philly are body armor and 2 spare magazine parts of town.

Champlain Islander 05-31-2020 05:43 PM

Never been there and most likely never will.

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