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Alsatian 05-29-2020 07:49 AM

With reference to things getting out of hand in Minneapolis:

"Because men are so foolish in Florence [substitute the United States], it happens all too frequently that no attempt is made to punish those who have caused upheavals. Instead, every effort is made to grant them impunity, so long as they put down their arms and desist. This sort of thing hardly serves to repress the insolent; on the contrary, it turns lambs into lions." Francesco Guicciardini, Ricordo 177 of Series C of "Maxims and Reflections." Guicciardini was a 16th century Florentine diplomat who began his career as a lawyer.

Why can this be so clearly understood 500 years ago but we so much more scientific and learned moderns do not know this? On what foolish theory is it OK to tolerate this crap? How many totally unrelated deaths, how much unnecessary property damage needs to happen before the law enforcement -- or the national guard, I am not particular what species of government force is applied to maintain order -- compels people to act right?

I imagine the explanation is some politician doesn't want to potentially damage his electability -- the politician is more concerned about his own political self-interest than in the interests of his community.

Valorius 05-29-2020 09:30 AM

The upheaval was caused by the cop who murdered a citizen in broad daylight and the DA who refuses to charge him.

Everything since is just wolves doing what wolves do.

It will end as soon as the cop is behind bars. But yet, still no charges, still no arrest. Rome burns as the DA fiddles, quite literally.

Totally self inflicted.

CalHunter 05-29-2020 10:30 AM

^^^ I agree with all of this except an arrest ending it. Wolves will be wolves until somebody stops them, i.e. starts arresting them. And I don't think that will happen under the present circumstances.

Valorius 05-29-2020 10:31 AM

Yeah I fear too much momentum has been worked up for this to just stop. This is a very ugly and almost entirely self inflicted situation.

CalHunter 05-29-2020 10:46 AM

Ditto!! Sad state of affairs and it was most likely avoidable (autopsy results might say otherwise).

Champlain Islander 05-29-2020 12:24 PM

I think the autopsy came back as not conclusive he died by asphyxiation from a neck compression. Coroner said man being cuffed and a level of intoxication could have contributed. They just threw gas on the fire. I just saw on CNN that a huge protest is forming. It looked like tens of thousands of people on a bridge.

Oldtimr 05-29-2020 01:50 PM

There is such a thing as positional asphyxiation, that is why you lay a handcuffed person on their side and not on their stomach.

Champlain Islander 05-29-2020 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Oldtimr (Post 4376538)
There is such a thing as positional asphyxiation, that is why you lay a handcuffed person on their side and not on their stomach.

I posted on another thread that the guys head was under the police car's exhaust. I wonder if the cop car was running. I am not sure what the policy is but I often see police cars still running when parked.

Oldtimr 05-29-2020 05:11 PM

With the pollution controls in gasoline today death by CO poisoning pretty much a thing of the past with exhaust fumes.

CalHunter 05-29-2020 07:01 PM

CI, I was curious if the black guy had any other medical conditions which also could have been aggravated by both the apparent struggle before he was handcuffed and being on his chest with a knee to his neck. And OT is correct about positional asphyxiation.

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