Proof Death Stats Are Being Manipulated
05-15-2020, 09:40 AM
#1
Giant Nontypical
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Join Date: Oct 2013
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Proof Death Stats Are Being Manipulated
Colorado man died of alcohol poisoning, but death was later blamed on coronavirus
By David AaroA Colorado man who died of alcohol poisoning had his death classified as due to the coronavirus, possibly shedding light on a skewed virus death toll in the state, according to a report on Thursday.
Sebastian Yellow, 35, was found dead by police on May 4. Montezuma County Coroner George Deavers later determined that his death was due to acute alcohol poisoning. His blood-alcohol content measured in at .55. The legal limit in the state is .08.
But before Deavers signed the death certificate, Colorado health officials reportedly categorized Yellow’s death as being due to COVID-19.
“They should have to be recording the same way I do. They have to go off the truth and facts and list it as such,” said Deavers, according to Denver's KCNC-TV.
Back in April, health officials in Colorado classified three nursing home fatalities as COVID-19 deaths, even though attending physicians ruled they were not related to the coronavirus.
While Yellow later tested positive for COVID-19, Deavers said his death had nothing to do with the coronavirus.
“It wasn’t COVID, it was alcohol toxicity,” said Deavers, according to the station.”Yes, he did have COVID but that is not what took his life.”
The Colorado Department of Public Health and Environment released a statement to KCNC-TV on how they classify COVID-19 related deaths.
"We classify a death as confirmed when there was a case who had a positive SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) laboratory test and then died. We also classify some deaths as probable," the statement said.
"The gist is that there must be strong epidemiological evidence of COVID-19 such as a combination of close contact with a confirmed case and symptoms of COVID-19. We will also count a death as a COVID-19 death when there is no known positive laboratory test but the death certificate lists 'COVID-19' as a cause of death."
Dr. Deborah Birx, the response coordinator for the White House coronavirus task force, said in April the federal government was classifying the deaths of patients infected with the coronavirus as COVID-19 deaths, regardless of any underlying health issues that could have contributed to the loss of someone’s life.
“There are other countries that if you had a pre-existing condition, and let’s say the virus caused you to go to the ICU [intensive care unit] and then have a heart or kidney problem,” she said during a news briefing at the White House. “Some countries are recording that as a heart issue or a kidney issue and not a COVID-19 death."
Classification instances like that of Yellow's could mean the virus is overcounted...
05-15-2020, 09:52 AM
#2
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With the sheer #'s of people dying and the rush to make room for the expected onslaught of corona victims, I knew there simply wouldn't be enough capacity to conduct autopsies and determine all causes and main causes of death. I heard that heart attacks, cancer deaths and the usual leading causes of death were all way down on #'s. When I heard the fed was paying hospitals for corona victims, that sealed the deal. Hospitals were not allowed to have non-essential surgeries and their revenue was dried up. Then the feds offer to pay them for each corona victim. It's not ethical but it's also not surprising that a lot of hospitals mislabeled deaths as corona when the actual #'s were probably a lot lower. It doesn't mean corona isn't a problem, just that it's been way over reported as far as deaths.
05-15-2020, 10:01 AM
#3
Giant Nontypical
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Originally Posted by CalHunter
Then the feds offer to pay them for each corona victim. It's not ethical but it's also not surprising that a lot of hospitals mislabeled deaths as corona when the actual #'s were probably a lot lower. It doesn't mean corona isn't a problem, just that it's been way over reported as far as deaths.
05-15-2020, 10:18 AM
#4
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 21,371
Originally Posted by CalHunter
With the sheer #'s of people dying and the rush to make room for the expected onslaught of corona victims, I knew there simply wouldn't be enough capacity to conduct autopsies and determine all causes and main causes of death. I heard that heart attacks, cancer deaths and the usual leading causes of death were all way down on #'s. When I heard the fed was paying hospitals for corona victims, that sealed the deal. Hospitals were not allowed to have non-essential surgeries and their revenue was dried up. Then the feds offer to pay them for each corona victim. It's not ethical but it's also not surprising that a lot of hospitals mislabeled deaths as corona when the actual #'s were probably a lot lower. It doesn't mean corona isn't a problem, just that it's been way over reported as far as deaths.
05-15-2020, 11:02 AM
#5
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,846
States are getting $39k per death, so you know every possible death they can in any way whatsoever pin on Wu Man Flu, they're going to do it.
When this is all over I have ZERO doubt that audits will show the actual Chinese death total is at least 30% lower than advertised.
When this is all over I have ZERO doubt that audits will show the actual Chinese death total is at least 30% lower than advertised.
05-15-2020, 11:49 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by Valorius
When did "We need to flatten the curve" become "We need a cure" before we could return to regular life in America?
What if there is no cure?
What if there is no cure?
I think the key point here is . . . . . . this is NOT an emergency. It is not an emergency.
If it is not an emergency, then government does not have the legal authority to do most of the things they are currently doing -- interfering with rights of free assembly among many other things, interfering with restaurants opening and serving customers. This battle can be fought at every level. Governors can be sued. Mayors can be sued. None of these governmental entities have the authority to infringe our civil rights. All it takes is a few -- maybe a lot -- of court challenges.
People are mesmerized by this thing. They should not be. People die. It happens. People get sick and die. Why are we not freaking the hell out about cardiovascular disease and stroke deaths? These are more than an order of magnitude greater in number than deaths from COVID-19. Likewise cancer deaths. Why are COVID-19 deaths worse and more appalling than cardiovascular and stroke and cancer deaths? We have let the news media make us think this is a more dangerous and urgent thing than it is.
End the government pretexts that this is an emergency, and then end the shutdowns.
05-15-2020, 11:53 AM
#8
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,846
The Mayor of Los Angeles literally said today that LA is closed until there is a cure.
Da Fuq.
There may never be a cure.
Wisconsin's supreme court just ended their state's lockdown 2 days ago, and all the democrat counties in the state immediately issued their own lock downs.
I suspect we're going to see that pattern repeated over and over in Dem states in the coming days and weeks.
Da Fuq.
There may never be a cure.
Wisconsin's supreme court just ended their state's lockdown 2 days ago, and all the democrat counties in the state immediately issued their own lock downs.
I suspect we're going to see that pattern repeated over and over in Dem states in the coming days and weeks.
05-15-2020, 12:38 PM
#9
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander
some medical experts like Dr. Fauci state their opinion that the numbers have been under reported especially in the beginning.
When Fauci made that statement he said that is was "possible" that people were dying at home and were not diagnosed as COVID victims. However that is a flawed statement. In the USA if someone dies at home and is not under the care of either a physician or hospice type personnel then it is required by law that they be autopsied. This became a law due to 2 instances of Bubonic Plague in San Francisco and Hawaii. In those cases people were dying of the plague and the authorities were not aware of it until it became a crisis. So if somebody dies at home and is not diagnosed of something then an autopsy must be done to head off any new infectious diseases. In other words, COVID would have been revealed. You can't get the body embalmed or cremated without a death certificate and you can't get a death certificate unless the cause of death is documented. Fauci as a doctor knows this and for that reason knows his "opinion" is flawed.
Fauci has made a number of statements that have proven him to be unreliable. Additionally he has a connection to both the lab in China where they think this may have started and also to the WHO. Plus he made a statement in 2017 that Trump would have to deal with a pandemic. Now how did he know that? You may put a lot of faith in him, I don't. He is an unelected official that is making too many policy decisions for the nation. Many doctors with just as much knowledge and experience have disagreed with him. As Rand Paul noted he is not the "end all" when it comes to this.
Last edited by flags; 05-15-2020 at 12:40 PM.
05-15-2020, 01:06 PM
#10
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 21,371
Originally Posted by Alsatian
You put your finger on it. The goal posts have been moved. Flatten the curve to avoid overflowing our hospitals: legitimate goal. Minimize the deaths from COVID-19: not a legitimate goal.
I think the key point here is . . . . . . this is NOT an emergency. It is not an emergency.
If it is not an emergency, then government does not have the legal authority to do most of the things they are currently doing -- interfering with rights of free assembly among many other things, interfering with restaurants opening and serving customers. This battle can be fought at every level. Governors can be sued. Mayors can be sued. None of these governmental entities have the authority to infringe our civil rights. All it takes is a few -- maybe a lot -- of court challenges.
People are mesmerized by this thing. They should not be. People die. It happens. People get sick and die. Why are we not freaking the hell out about cardiovascular disease and stroke deaths? These are more than an order of magnitude greater in number than deaths from COVID-19. Likewise cancer deaths. Why are COVID-19 deaths worse and more appalling than cardiovascular and stroke and cancer deaths? We have let the news media make us think this is a more dangerous and urgent thing than it is.
End the government pretexts that this is an emergency, and then end the shutdowns.
I think the key point here is . . . . . . this is NOT an emergency. It is not an emergency.
If it is not an emergency, then government does not have the legal authority to do most of the things they are currently doing -- interfering with rights of free assembly among many other things, interfering with restaurants opening and serving customers. This battle can be fought at every level. Governors can be sued. Mayors can be sued. None of these governmental entities have the authority to infringe our civil rights. All it takes is a few -- maybe a lot -- of court challenges.
People are mesmerized by this thing. They should not be. People die. It happens. People get sick and die. Why are we not freaking the hell out about cardiovascular disease and stroke deaths? These are more than an order of magnitude greater in number than deaths from COVID-19. Likewise cancer deaths. Why are COVID-19 deaths worse and more appalling than cardiovascular and stroke and cancer deaths? We have let the news media make us think this is a more dangerous and urgent thing than it is.
End the government pretexts that this is an emergency, and then end the shutdowns.
Last edited by Champlain Islander; 05-15-2020 at 01:14 PM.
