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Well, it's as we feared

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Well, it's as we feared

Old 05-07-2020, 03:37 PM
  #1  
Nontypical Buck
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Default Well, it's as we feared

Australia now losing more people to lock down related Suicides than Corona virus.

https://txarmyvet.blogspot.com/2020/...kdowns-to.html

UK cancer doctors also saying more people in UK will die from cancer than Covid, because of lack of screening and cancelled cancer treatments. Which even as far back as Apr5 doctors were warning of.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...ses-could-die/

The great calamity of our time is not going to be covid. It is going to be the way we absolutely massively overreacted to covid and killed many times more people than covid ever will with our response.

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Old 05-07-2020, 03:55 PM
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So I ask the question...suppose nothing was done here in the states to provide isolation? Would we have more Covid 19 deaths? In the end it was the vast consensus... Trump included that we needed to shut down. Are you saying we would have been better off doing nothing?
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Old 05-07-2020, 04:44 PM
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Good question. I suspect had the government just given guide lines instead of usurping our constitution and stopped people from going to their jobs and preventing our citizens from excersizing their rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness outcome would not have been much worse if at all. Our government exceeded its authority using the excuse that it was for our own good which is the excuse used by all despots. The salient question is, was it really for our own good or was it a power grab by power hungry governors and politicians? I choose the latter!

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Old 05-07-2020, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
So I ask the question...suppose nothing was done here in the states to provide isolation?
Sweden.

Trump is not an expert, and was listening to the advice of the experts. In the end, it is the experts and those who used their recommendations to further their anti freedom political aims that are most to blame for this.

Look at Oregon....about 130 deaths to date from COVID19, and the gov just locked down the entire state until July 6th. That is utterly and completely uncalled for, irresponsible, and tyrannical.

And yet half the peanut gallery cheers as their chains are tightened.
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Old 05-07-2020, 08:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
So I ask the question...suppose nothing was done here in the states to provide isolation? Would we have more Covid 19 deaths? In the end it was the vast consensus... Trump included that we needed to shut down. Are you saying we would have been better off doing nothing?
To answer your above questions (even though you posed them to somebody else), if nothing had been done in response to the corona pandemic situation, things obviously would have been worse. I don't think anybody is suggesting that nothing should have been done. Your 2nd question asking the other member if he is saying we would have been better off doing nothing is kind of a loaded question. If the member answers yes, they are obviously wrong. If they answer no, it makes it seem like they agree with your previously stated view that everything was done properly. Your question would appear to deny that any other choices of action would or could have been better choices, let alone more effective ones.

In normal outbreak protocols, people/authorities/government try to quarantine sick people, not healthy ones, in an effort to prevent the spread of the disease or illness and hopefully devote medical care to heal those who are ill. Healthy people continue to live their lives, work at their jobs and provide income/taxes/revenue so the quarantine actions and medical treatment can be paid for and the rest of a population continues to have a healthy diet which lessens the chance of them getting ill. Aside from quarantining obviously ill people, this was a little more difficult with Covid since we didn't have any tests to verify if a person was ill (absent obvious symptoms or distress) and thus would have achieved only a partial quarantine even if every covid positive person cooperated (which some obviously did not). It would have been more difficult also because NY did some survey of people with covid and determined that something like 2/3rds of them contracted covid while sheltering in place at home. Obviously, we still don't know all the ways one can contract covid. It also makes you wonder if there isn't some form of covid already floating through our society or somehow already naturally occurring like the flu and colds, etc.

I wish Trump could have/would have closed down our borders sooner but that was being fought tooth and nail. I wish China would have been responsible and shut down airline flights from Wuhan to the world instead of just from Wuhan to the rest of China. But that would require China to act responsibly like an adult instead of trying to hide their bad judgments. I wish China would have exercised better control in the lab outside of Wuhan that was conducting some kind of lab experiments with the corona virus instead of having lax safety, below standard cleaning protocols and incompetent testing. Like a responsible country would do. But they didn't. Instead, they apparently got money from our country (2014 or 2015?) to conduct experiments that our country decided to prohibit. Since Fauci was at least knowledgeable about the funding and corona virus experiments in the Wuhan lab, he probably could have briefed the President and our country a little more honestly and forthrightly but he didn't. Kind of like the Chinese government. I wish WHO would have been more responsible but they weren't and the WHO Director forgot the part about his organization being for the health of the world and not just covering for China. There are a lot of things that could have been handled more responsibly and which would have likely reduced the death rate in this pandemic both in our country and throughout the world. But they didn't happen.

I'm not accusing Fauci of something criminal. I don't think he's evil. But I do think he could have done his job quite a bit better and yes, he does know better and is a smart guy, in spite of these obvious lapses of judgment. There were some things our country did right and some things we did wrong. There were some things we should have done instead. And obviously, there are a lot of people in government who are obviously in over their head and shouldn't be in charge. Like Cuomo ordering senior homes to take in Covid19 positive seniors when they told him they didn't have the equipment, training or facilities to handle those patient and their senior residents were in a high risk group for catching covid and dying which Cuomo already knew (see article below). I happen to think that Fauci and the other doctor could have spoken up about that also.


https://nypost.com/2020/04/21/cuomo-coronavirus-nursing-home-policy-proves-tragic-goodwin/







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Old 05-08-2020, 03:26 AM
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I believe the path we and almost all the rest of the world took was due to fear based on the initial 2 countries that had the virus blow up. China totally locked down the whole region around wuhon...should have done it much sooner. Then when they finally admitted they had a problem Italy then Spain were losing hundreds per day. At that time we had sick peiple but many didnt know it due to the 2 week incubation. If there was any good was that we were later than others. Still in the end it went out of control in the densely packed cities. Cases are still growing in numbers in more than half the states so we arent out of it yet. A couple points I was reading about today. Interesting that the CDC hasn't been used as the point for dealing with the crisis. And another issue is the senate failed to over ride Trump's veto against the bipartisan vote to prevent him from taking additional action against Iran. Does anyone else worry that we are going in a dangerous direction?

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Old 05-08-2020, 07:13 AM
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We should have done what Sweden did, is my answer to the loaded question.
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:16 AM
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Why didnt we go in that direction? On another front the only drug proven to help covid patients is remdesivir. It is reported that there are only 200k doses worldwide. I wonder how quickly the drug can be made?

Last edited by Champlain Islander; 05-08-2020 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
So I ask the question...suppose nothing was done here in the states to provide isolation? Would we have more Covid 19 deaths? In the end it was the vast consensus... Trump included that we needed to shut down. Are you saying we would have been better off doing nothing?
The real question is . . . why the hell do the shutdowns continue now? It is no longer an unknown disease and piss poor data that we are looking at. We have LOTS of data. We aren't all New York City. Why do some places continue government ordered shutdowns without any relaxation of strictures yet? Don't those people who Valorious has pointed out who die because of the shutdowns matter? Are their deaths less meaningful than the deaths from COVID-19?

I think the proper way to deal with this is (1) to acknowledge that this is NOT an emergency, and hence government cannot claim emergency powers and (2) demand that government not infringe our civil rights, including the right of free assembly. Sure, people can choose to do intelligent things, like observe social distancing most of the time. Sure, nursing homes can choose to implement no visitation policies. But these are not government mandated actions. The big trouble is when government starts to shove everyone else out of the way, takes control, ignores rights, and applies a bureaucratic, once-size-fits-all solution.
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Old 05-08-2020, 07:24 AM
  #10  
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Always a question when it comes to protecting people from themselves. Lots of places are starting to open up
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