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Why the resistance to hydroxychloroquine?

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Why the resistance to hydroxychloroquine?

Old 04-06-2020, 11:56 AM
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Giant Nontypical
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Default Why the resistance to hydroxychloroquine?

I have been amazed at the resistance of some to the off-label use of hydroxychlroquine (desirably in combination with azithromycin) to treat people with serious symptoms of coronavirus. I think there is a great controversy and battle brewing over this specific subject.

There is *evidence that hydroxychloroquine, particularly when used at the same time with azithromycin, has been effective at treating patients with serious symptoms of coronavirus. What are "serious" symptoms? Well, if you aren't sure if it is a hangover or the coronavirus, and by noon you feel better, those are not serious symptoms. If you feel body pain, run a fever, have a dry cough, but simply lay on the couch all day with a blanket over you watching re-runs of "The Rifleman" and feel better the next day, those are not serious symptoms. if you feel bad enough that you go to a doctor or even a hospital, let's say that is where the dividing line is. What is *evidence? I put an asterisk there because that, at least purportedly, is the bone of contention. What constitutes "evidence?"

It seems that Dr Fauci only considers evidence what is created in the most robust, lumbering, time consuming process possible: a double blind rigorous study. I assume this sort of thing takes on the order of 3 months or more to plan, launch, complete, and summarize in a peer reviewed report. Maybe it takes longer. Dr Fauci has given ZERO indication that he would consider anything else as "evidence." Other information he damns with faint praise by calling it "anecdotal evidence." Dr Gottleib, former FDA commissioner, is in the same boat or may be even less appreciative of off-label use of hydroxychlroquine.

What is the "anecdotal evidence?" Initially a paper published by a French doctor about 30 patients that he treated in France. The results were distinctly good. I think this same French doctor has since published extends the report of good results to a larger sample size. Doctors in the US and China -- and I believe the rest of the world -- are very widely using hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus, and to distinct success. Granted, this is not a double blind study. But these are doctors treating patients.

The context of this is that (1) there are no approved drugs specifically designed and tested to cure coronavirus, (2) people are dying from this virus at a high mortality rate (if not a high mortality rate -- why the heck are we all hunkering down in our homes?!!!), and (3) these drugs have been in use for 60+ years -- all the side effects are well known and not very grievous. When a patient experiences side effects, these can be addressed readily with other known drugs. What possible pretext can there be for resisting this drug combination? Cheap, available, low to zero risk, and seem to work.

What explains the resistance?

I have heard some proclaim that to promote the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat coronavirus as directly comparable to hawking snake oil -- that someone who promotes use of hydroxychloroquine off-label to treat coronavirus is the same as a snakeoil salesman. What is the deal?

I'm thinking in about a week there is going to be a LOT of data available about how this drug has or has not worked with large numbers of people -- thousands of people. Granted, it is not a double blind study blessed by the laborynthian FDA drug approval process . . . but people are dying NOW.

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Old 04-06-2020, 01:19 PM
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I watched Trumps press conference when he was pushing that drug but added with the fact that he isn't a doctor. I am not a doctor either and can only give an opinion based on the media linked doctors that seem to all be saying it could be dangerous and the benefits aren't proven. Trump has a lot on his plate and wonder why he would spend so much time pushing that particular drug and even adding he might take it or something to that extent. It just seemed like he would have better more important things to talk about.

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Old 04-06-2020, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
I watched Trumps press conference when he was pushing that drug but added with the fact that he isn't a doctor. I am not a doctor either and can only give an opinion based on the media linked doctors that seem to all be saying it could be dangerous and the benefits aren't proven. Trump has a lot on his plate and wonder why he would spend so much time pushing that particular drug. It just seemed like he would have better more important things to talk about.
When I read what you wrote, it reads to me like you are saying the only person on the planet who is recommending the use of hydroxychloroquine is Donald Trump. If that were true, you would most certainly be right. IS THAT what you are saying?

But the fact is Donald Trump didn't gin-up a recommendation for this drug on his own. The recommendation comes from multiple independent sources. How would he know of this drug? Because others have brought it to his attention as an effective drug for coronavirus, widely available, long tested, cheap. As I mentioned, there was a documented French use of the drug to much success. It is said to be widely used now in the US -- off-label -- to treat cornovirus. Laura Ingraham almost every night on her show on FOX goes into the use of hydroxychloroquine. She talks with a number of different US doctors actively treating coronavirus patients with hydroxychloroquine right now. I have heard the Chinese are using hydroxychloroquine as the go-to therapeutic drug for coronavirus.

It is not true that all the media linked doctors are disparaging hydroxychloroquine. Dr Oz is upbeat about it. I don't know a lot of other media linked doctors. I am sure there are other media linked doctors -- I don't dispute that. I wonder if there is a statistical correlation between doctors disparaging off-label use of hydroxychloroquine for treating coronavirus and affiliation said media doctors with mainstream media?

This will be interesting. There is going to be a reckoning on this hydroxychloroquine matter. It is being so widely used, it isn't going to be a matter of uncertainty how it fared.

Last edited by Alsatian; 04-06-2020 at 01:41 PM.
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Old 04-06-2020, 01:40 PM
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I suspect it is became it is being used off label for Corona virus. There isn't enough knowledge about using it for the Corona virus to make it common practice. There are reasons that there are rules about using drugs to treat diseases and those rules are not, " lets see what this one will do"!
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Old 04-06-2020, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Alsatian View Post
When I read what you wrote, it reads to me like you are saying the only person on the planet who is recommending the use of hydroxychloroquine is Donald Trump. If that were true, you would most certainly be right. IS THAT what you are saying?
Never said that and never even alluded to that. I just said I watched his press conference when he was really rambling on and on about the drug. If it works great but I found it odd that he would be spending so much time talking about something he isn't an expert on. He had some heavy hitters standing at his side that should have been talking about the medical side.

But the fact is Donald Trump didn't gin-up a recommendation for this drug on his own. The recommendation comes from multiple independent sources. How would he know of this drug? Because others have brought it to his attention as an effective drug for coronavirus, widely available, long tested, cheap. As I mentioned, there was a documented French use of the drug to much success. It is said to be widely used now in the US -- off-label -- to treat cornovirus. Laura Ingraham almost every night on her show on FOX goes into the use of hydroxychloroquine. She talks with a number of different US doctors actively treating coronavirus patients with hydroxychloroquine right now. I have heard the Chinese are using hydroxychloroquine as the go-to therapeutic drug for coronavirus.

It is not true that all the media linked doctors are disparaging hydroxychloroquine. Dr Oz is upbeat about it. I don't know a lot of other media linked doctors.
Well if you say so then that is OK with me. I havent watched much media lately other than the nightly Trump show with the associated media spin after which can go both ways depending on which media I watch.. At the end of that I go to some streaming series we have been watching. Not sure what Dr OZ is. Never saw his show.

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Old 04-06-2020, 02:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
Never said that and never even alluded to that. I just said I watched his press conference when he was really rambling on and on about the drug. If it works great but I found it odd that he would be spending so much time talking about something he isn't an expert on. He had some heavy hitters standing at his side that should have been talking about the medical side. Well if you say so then that is OK with me. I havent watched much media lately other than the nightly Trump show with the associated media spin after which can go both ways depending on which media I watch.. At the end of that I go to some streaming series we have been watching. Not sure what Dr OZ is. Never saw his show.
Dr Oz is a twit, I would not take anything he says to heart. There are excellent physicians, then there are trash TV hosts.
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
I watched Trumps press conference when he was pushing that drug but added with the fact that he isn't a doctor. I am not a doctor either and can only give an opinion based on the media linked doctors that seem to all be saying it could be dangerous and the benefits aren't proven. Trump has a lot on his plate and wonder why he would spend so much time pushing that particular drug and even adding he might take it or something to that extent. It just seemed like he would have better more important things to talk about.
If the use of use of hydroxychlroquine in combination with azithromycin to treat people with serious symptoms of coronavirus saved just one person's life would, you change your mind about President Trump?
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Old 04-06-2020, 02:36 PM
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Nope, I would rather they worked on a specific drug for Corona rather than simple try everything in the drawer. There are no checks and balances to determine if someone who survived that was give hydroxychloroquine was the cause of the survival or just a fluke. Throwing darts at a dart board and hoping one of the things they hit will work is not the way to defeat this disease and only small minded people would think it is.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by RaySendero View Post
If the use of use of hydroxychlroquine in combination with azithromycin to treat people with serious symptoms of coronavirus saved just one person's life would, you change your mind about President Trump?
My feelings about Trump have nothing to do with the drug. It is hard for me to like abrasive and abusive people no matter what job they have. One could ask the same question with a slight change.....What if an uneducated and ill advised press release pushing a drug which has not been tested on a specific disease resulted in severe side effects that cost someone their life? When people in power make statements the population tend to believe them. Bad info could be a disaster. Did say I personally don't like him but haven't said I wouldn't vote for him. I'll just leave it at that.
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Old 04-06-2020, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
My feelings about Trump have nothing to do with the drug. It is hard for me to like abrasive and abusive people no matter what job they have. One could ask the same question with a slight change.....What if an uneducated and ill advised press release pushing a drug which has not been tested on a specific disease resulted in severe side effects that cost someone their life? When people in power make statements the population tend to believe them. Bad info could be a disaster. Did say I personally don't like him but haven't said I wouldn't vote for him. I'll just leave it at that.
Would hope you would love to see any and all lives saved!
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