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Old 04-19-2020, 01:54 PM
  #111  
Dominant Buck
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Originally Posted by sconnyhunter View Post
I don't quite call a seasonal guess, to be a vaccine. Not like the Polio Vaccine, or smallpox, or MMR. Those are vaccines. The flu is a guess in the wind, that sometimes hits close to the mark. Its like throwing a hand grenade, get close enough and sometimes you get the target too.

You've been downplaying HCQ, since the start. Its been internationally tested and used, with GREAT success. Not just for this off label virus, but also for its ON label uses.


We've allowed this to impact our economy globally out of FEAR. Nothing more. We were sold a bill of goods and left to hang with our own fears of the unknown.

If the good Dr's are so accurate, why have their "MODELS" been reduced 3 times now?

We may hit 50K dead my nect week, but for every 1 THAT DIES, 99 are living. That's the death rate here. 1%. I like those numbers, even if you don't.

As I've said before, life is dangerous, and freedom isn't free. I'm willing to pay the price, even if you are not.
Yes I have been skeptical about the benefits of CQ but only because I haven't seen medical experts saying it was the accepted method of treatment. Time will tell if it is indeed the silver bullet that Trump claimed. I wouldn't call our response to this pandemic fear based. I think there were a lot of really good moves for something nobody even saw coming. Trump cutting off the travel from China when he did saved lives no doubt. I don't know how you could even say I am not willing to pay the price to live free. I think I have far more invested than many people in both time and accomplishments.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:20 PM
  #112  
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You know the reason CQ hasn't been raised up more here in the US is completely biased by big pharma don't you? FDA is big pharma's lapdog. And quite honestly, I personally feel that much of this shutdown was unneeded. If people would have simply used a little common sense and used basic flu protocols, such as washing hands and not sneezing and coughing in someones face. You know, what your mothers taught you when you were little. This thing got way overblown in the media and anyone with some slight intelligence can see it. Of course it is going to spread like wildfire in big cities where people live stacked up on top of each other and packed into subways and buses and have absolutely 0 manners like most city people.
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Old 04-19-2020, 02:30 PM
  #113  
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I don't think this is anything like basic seasonal flu in both ease and speed of spread. We have had many years of seasonal flu but look at the stats on that last pandemic the Spanish flu which covered the world for a couple of years back in the early part of the 1900's and killed what is estimated as a large percentage of the world's population. Technology and healthcare have certainly improved as well as the media bringing the facts to the people. I think the social separation was successful in eliminating many deaths and a prolonged pandemic. Even today with all we know and ways to help people survive, the death toll will be very high.
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Old 04-19-2020, 06:42 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
I haven't heard that there is any drug proven to be very effective
Actually there is a drug in clinical trials that is having more than just promising results so far. A large scale clinical trial is in process around the globe .
Preliminary results everywhere it is being tested on the severely ill is having remarkable success. Trials with a placebo are expecting results in a couple weeks. This could be the game changer the world needs at this time.

https://www.statnews.com/2020/04/16/...-to-treatment/

Last edited by SportsmanNH; 04-19-2020 at 06:44 PM.
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:07 PM
  #115  
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Originally Posted by Coastal Mountaineer View Post
Here's what happened in February per the New York Times:

Early February: Other White House officials, including deputy national security adviser Matthew Pottinger, join Grogan in calling for a more forceful response. Pottinger pushes for expanding the travel bans to countries such as Italy and earns the support of Anthony S. Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases. but the plan is resisted by Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, who cited economic concerns.

Feb. 5: Trump’s impeachment trial ends with his acquittal by the Senate.

Feb. 5: Sen. Chris Murphy (D-Conn.) says that a briefing shows the administration isn’t taking the virus seriously enough and says it isn’t heeding calls for emergency funding.

Feb. 10: Trump says, “I think the virus is going to be — it’s going to be fine.”

Feb. 14: A memo is drafted by health officials and the National Security Council about the potential need for “quarantine and isolation measures to combat the virus," per the NY Times but a scheduled meeting to brief Trump on the plan is later canceled.

Feb. 19: Trump says: “I think it’s going to work out fine. I think when we get into April, in the warmer weather, that has a very negative effect on that and that type of a virus. So let’s see what happens, but I think it’s going to work out fine.”

Feb. 21: The White House coronavirus task force conducts a mock response to a pandemic and concludes that mass social distancing will be needed, per the Times

Feb. 23: Another Navarro memo warns of an “increasing probability of a full blown Covid-19 pandemic that could infect as many as 100 million Americans, with a loss of life of as many as 1-2 million souls.”

Feb. 23: Italy begins to see evidence of a major outbreak in the Lombardy region.

Feb. 24: As Iran becomes a hot spot, WHO Director General Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus warns of a possible pandemic “There is a lot of speculation about whether this increase means that this epidemic has now become a pandemic,” he says.

Feb. 24: Trump says: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA. … Stock Market starting to look very good to me!”


Feb. 25: Nancy Messonnier, the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases, warns publicly about the inevitable spread of the virus and says “we need to be preparing for significant disruption in our lives.”

Feb. 26: Trump says, “When you have 15 people — and the 15 within a couple of days is going to be down to close to zero — that’s a pretty good job we’ve done.”

Feb. 27: Senate Intelligence Committee Chairman Richard Burr (R-N.C.), who had received briefings on the threat, tells a private luncheon that the coronavirus is “much more aggressive in its transmission than anything that we have seen in recent history” and is “is probably more akin to the 1918 Influenza pandemic,” in which 50 million or more people died worldwide.

Feb. 28: Trump says: “It’s going to disappear. One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.”

Feb. 29: The United States records its first coronavirus death and announces new travel restrictions for Iran, Italy and South Korea.

A whole month wasted.
And yet...

Jan 31, Trump shuts down travel from china. And is immediately criticized by the left AND by top epidemiologists:

From the NYT: "Jan 31, 2020: "At this point, sharply curtailing air travel to and from China is more of an emotional or political reaction," said Dr. Michael T. Osterholm, an epidemiologist at Minnesota U." (Bold print is from the copy and paste from NYT story)

And: "The World Health Organization declared a global health emergency because of the spreading virus, though it opposed restrictions on travel or trade with China."

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/01/31/b...ronavirus.html

So even AFTER Trump shut down travel from China the WHO opposed it, and top scientists accused him of doing it for emotional reasons.

Both Biden AND Sanders said in their debate they would not have shut down travel from China when Trump did.

Then Trump shut down Travel from Europe on march 11, and UK on march 12. A full 9 days before Cuomo relented to BiBlasio's pleas to shut down NYC.

Meanwhile as late a march 13, DiBlasio was tweeting telling New Yorkers to keep going out on the town and that CV19 was no threat.
https://townhall.com/tipsheet/bethba...virus-n2565927

Blaming Trump for CV19 is utterly reeeeeeeee-tarded.

I even have a hard time blaming Diblasio or Cuomo for one simple reason:

THIS IS ENTIRELY CHINA'S FAULT.

Last edited by Valorius; 04-19-2020 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:14 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Coastal Mountaineer View Post
For the record, here's what Pelosi said: “It’s exciting to be here, especially at this time, to be able to be unified with our community,” Pelosi said on Feb. 24. “We want to be vigilant about what is out there in other places. We want to be careful about how we deal with it, but we do want to say to people ‘Come to Chinatown, here we are — we're, again, careful, safe — and come join us.'”

But, this thread isn't titled "Pelosi", its about President Trump and his comments to America.
And the simple fact is that multiple top democrats literally called for people to keep going out on the town long after Trump has shut down travel from China. And even as late as March 13th DiBlasio was urging people to go out on the town on NYC.

Nice try trying to shut down the actual reality, but nah bruh. Not happening.
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Old 04-19-2020, 10:19 PM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
I don't think this is anything like basic seasonal flu in both ease and speed of spread. We have had many years of seasonal flu but look at the stats on that last pandemic the Spanish flu which covered the world for a couple of years back in the early part of the 1900's and killed what is estimated as a large percentage of the world's population. Technology and healthcare have certainly improved as well as the media bringing the facts to the people. I think the social separation was successful in eliminating many deaths and a prolonged pandemic. Even today with all we know and ways to help people survive, the death toll will be very high.
I agree with this.

The whole "the flu kills up to 70k people per year" argument overlooks the fact that we are probably going to exceed that even AFTER totally shutting down the country. And that the flu takes a whole year to kill 70k, and we're already over 40k deaths in the US since just Feb 29th.

On the flip side, I have seen estimates that for every .1% the US unemployment rate goes up, an additional 10k Americans die per year. (From suicide, homelessness, drug use, alcohol abuse, homicide, domestic abuse, etc)

Given that millions have lost their job, it is entirely reasonable to expect that hundreds of thousands of Americans will die from the above causes, that would not have.

Then on the flip side again, probably 10s of thousands of Americans who would've died in traffic and work related accidents will not die.

You can go really deep into the weeds trying to figure out if shutting down the country is really saving any lives- but Trump had no choice. He couldnt just let the country take the full power gut punch of an unchecked Chinese flu either.

No win situation.
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Old 04-20-2020, 02:37 AM
  #118  
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Not bad. I think your opinion is plausible valorous. Especially the last sentence.
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Old 04-20-2020, 03:22 AM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by hunters_life View Post
You know the reason CQ hasn't been raised up more here in the US is completely biased by big pharma don't you? FDA is big pharma's lapdog. And quite honestly, I personally feel that much of this shutdown was unneeded. If people would have simply used a little common sense and used basic flu protocols, such as washing hands and not sneezing and coughing in someones face. You know, what your mothers taught you when you were little. This thing got way overblown in the media and anyone with some slight intelligence can see it. Of course it is going to spread like wildfire in big cities where people live stacked up on top of each other and packed into subways and buses and have absolutely 0 manners like most city people.

You speak as though intelligence and common sense is still a common commodity in the US. It has not been for some time. What we have now is "I want it, and I want it now and I don't want to have to pay anything for it". That paying for it extends to way beyond money.
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Old 04-20-2020, 10:17 AM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by sconnyhunter View Post
That's an easy speculation to make, when you can't know it for sure. California has had this since November or October. And they're not seeing the kind of death and destruction that you predict. They only started the social distancing experiment two days before New York.
No, I think you're completely wrong on your assertion. The numbers don't back it up. The MODELS do, but not the actual patient counts. This is because people don't live statically, as models predict.

New York and Italy had bad reactions to it for various reasons.
One being they live on top of each other. They rely MASSIVELY on public transit packing people into small areas like sardine for the shelf.
Italy has a very high number of smokers, combined with dense populations and generational living arrangements (grandparents often live with their younger generations).
The virus jumped to humans on the 3rd week of november (source: Michael Osterholm, Epidemiologist/Virologist, Univ of Minn), so I am quite confident that Ca did not have this virus in November.

We have 40,000+ dead WITH the extreme social distancing in less than 7 weeks. The numbers seem to back it up quite clearly to me.

That said, it's time to open back up. At this point the odds are we will lose far, far more people from the sky high unemployment rate than we ever will from the Flu Man Chu.

As far as why it is worse in NY than in CA, the prevailing theory is that since trump shut down travel from China in Jan, but did not shut down travel from Europe until march (12th IIRC), it was Europeans who had returned from China and then spread it in Europe that caused such widespread infection in NY, whereas direct travel from China to Ca was shut down far sooner. Plus as you said, the extreme population density of NYC. (and the idiot DiBlasio).

We need to all not lose sight of the FACT that the only people who are actually to blame for this are the communist Chinese.

Last edited by Valorius; 04-20-2020 at 10:23 AM.
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