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Old 08-06-2019, 06:21 PM
  #41  
Nontypical Buck
 
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Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
A side note, it didn't go unnoticed to me and I got reminded today about it. The cops in Dayton that dropped the scum bag in under a minute, were young officers. I remember looking at the officers bio when they first showed their bravery. I think two of the older ones, excluding the Sargent were class of 2016. The rest were even younger. How lucky are we to have officers trained this well ready to go in and take out the bad guy?
Yes they did good, shot the bad guy, didn't get shot themselves and didn't shoot any civilians (as far as I know).
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Old 08-06-2019, 06:22 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Oldtimr View Post
Sadly, in GB that would get you convicted and imprisoned. And mrbb, you are incorrect, when the law says you cannot be sued if you shoot someone in self defense of yourself or another under the stand your ground law, that is what it means. If you are found to be justified, the survivors of the puke you made room temperature, or crippled, may not sue under the law in PA.
the stand your ground does for sure protect you in many ways,
But you better have a covered all other options before you used deadly force and you better have all your life been a above standard living person, as your past will get dug up, and examined
tricky lawyers and heat fro m many other directions can lead to law suits
one things protects you YES< but it doesn;t cover everything
that is all I am saying
its NOT as black and white as many think !
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Old 08-09-2019, 04:38 AM
  #43  
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I was in a conviennt store at 2:00AM A tall black guy comes in and looks very much like he is going to rob the store..I've got a 38 in my pocket with the most intense hollowpoints I could buy...I'm shaking like a leaf..
Im a decent shot as most hunters are..If I shoot the guy the bullet may go straight through and kill the clerk..still shaking..I'm waiting for the guy to pull out a firearm..I'm praying and trying to think straight..Cops must have it really rough..I'm only 10 feet in back of the guy acting like I'm looking at the chips..Just then a local police officer pulled up to the gas pumps and this guys exits very quickly..

No one knows what they will do..and shaking so bad not sure how accurate I really am in a crazy situation...I know we used live ammo a lot in army drills...being screamed at shooting at siluettes in a field in front of you...your mind goes blank...you keep shooting and advancing...trusting in your commander..
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Old 08-09-2019, 08:24 AM
  #44  
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Agreed, I can very close to blowing the head off this guy breaking into my friends home. Long story short, he had already broken the window earlier in the day. Cane back at midnight and began tearing the cardboard back. His hands were through and I saw the whites of his eyes looking directly at both barrels of my shotgun from a foot away. I would wish that situation on anyone.

Stand your ground laws and the perp. There was a case where an old man shot a guy at the gas station. Just before the judge ruled, he asked the guy could you have backed up any further, he said yes. The judge found him guilty.
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Old 08-09-2019, 10:07 AM
  #45  
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Must have been a liberal judge.
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Old 08-10-2019, 08:36 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
Agreed, I can very close to blowing the head off this guy breaking into my friends home. Long story short, he had already broken the window earlier in the day. Cane back at midnight and began tearing the cardboard back. His hands were through and I saw the whites of his eyes looking directly at both barrels of my shotgun from a foot away. I would wish that situation on anyone.

Stand your ground laws and the perp. There was a case where an old man shot a guy at the gas station. Just before the judge ruled, he asked the guy could you have backed up any further, he said yes. The judge found him guilty.
I'd be curious about the entire police investigation on that and why the local District Attorney filed a case.
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Old 08-10-2019, 01:21 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by CalHunter View Post
I'd be curious about the entire police investigation on that and why the local District Attorney filed a case.
I agree. that's about I remember. It was a highlighted case for the CC class. More for the point, you need to make damn sure before you chose to take that next step. My own experience had already driven that point home.
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Old 08-11-2019, 12:59 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Chuck7 View Post
I was in a conviennt store at 2:00AM A tall black guy comes in and looks very much like he is going to rob the store..I've got a 38 in my pocket with the most intense hollowpoints I could buy...I'm shaking like a leaf..
Im a decent shot as most hunters are..If I shoot the guy the bullet may go straight through and kill the clerk..still shaking..I'm waiting for the guy to pull out a firearm..I'm praying and trying to think straight..Cops must have it really rough..I'm only 10 feet in back of the guy acting like I'm looking at the chips..Just then a local police officer pulled up to the gas pumps and this guys exits very quickly..

No one knows what they will do..and shaking so bad not sure how accurate I really am in a crazy situation...I know we used live ammo a lot in army drills...being screamed at shooting at siluettes in a field in front of you...your mind goes blank...you keep shooting and advancing...trusting in your commander..
Two times I got into a shooting situation, both times the bad guys were white, wearing sports jackets, clean-cut and looked like salesmen. One was armed and I shot him right through the brisket, the bullet went through him and through his partner behind him (Ruger 30 caliber carbine pistol loaded with ball ammo). The second was a home invasion, he and his partner weren't armed and got a warning shot right next to their heads. I'm pretty sure one of the guys was powder tattoed for life.

I practice shooting at a point and not a target. Even bullseye targets, I put a white bullethole patch in the ten ring black. The same thing on half-man silhouettes, I put a target patch on there. If you concentrate on the point and practice, it forces tunnel vision and concentration, which can help block out the adrenalin. Aim small miss small, seems to help with focus and steadies the hands.

I refused to talk to the Police and asked instead to call a friend. My friend was a magistrate and a lawyer. He helped me write my statement. The crux of the statement was, they came in without masks, if they were wearing masks I would have given them the cash, I figured they weren't planning on leaving any witnesses alive. The only escape route I had was across the room. I never even had to appear.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 08-11-2019 at 01:05 AM.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:00 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by ButchA View Post
Questions that need to be asked regarding this scenario above:
(1) How many innocent lives did I save in that WalMart by taking out the perpetrator?
(2) Was I in the right, even though I am not a police officer, but as a retired military veteran armed with a legally owned 1911 .45 ACP?
(3) Will I go to jail and/or face serious lawsuits by the perpetrators family, because it was ME that ended his life?
(4) What would you do in the scenario above?
1) No way to ever know how many lives saved, plus how many more saved from serious injury or impairment, but that number is in all likelihood more than zero.
2) Any citizen, regardless of occupation, would be in the right in this scenario. No duty to respond, but certainly not wrong to respond, especially if they felt like their own life was in danger.
3) In any of the jurisdictions I have worked, you would likely have had your firearm taken by an officer and unloaded and kept until they had a clear picture of what was going on, but then probably given your gun back and released. DA would most likely take the case to grand jury, recommended a no-bill, which the grand jury would promptly issue. This would stave off most other legal proceedings. Not saying a family member of perp couldn't try to sue under some law somewhere, but again, in the jurisdictions I work or have worked, I wouldn't give them much chance of collecting an award from the jury or any of the judges.
4) First, let us get to the real reason why I carry. I carry to protect myself and my family. Keep that in mind because that will govern how I respond. I also try to use a multi-level approach to self-defense. First is situational awareness. If I saw someone behaving erratically, or thought something might be up, I leave. I always check buildings for exits and escape routes, not just for scenarios like this, but for any scenario where myself or my family might need to exit quickly, such as in the case of a fire. I also try to avoid the higher traffic areas, especially entrances or exits, until I'm ready to enter or exit. Can't see what is happening on the other side of the door, so I couldn't see a perp coming in until it was too late. The more distance and people between me and perp, the more likely I will be to escape safely. So perp comes in, I'm not expecting him, where do I go from here? Again, I try to escape if possible. If not, then I try to use cover. If no cover, I'll try for concealment, such as the large display of canned goods in your example. My theory to surviving a gunfight is the odds are the greatest in my favor if I'm not actually in the gunfight. Again, I'm carrying to protect myself and my family. It may sound cold, but I don't intend to take a bullet for someone else that wouldn't take one for me if they had the option and wouldn't provide for my family if I don't win the gunfight. I also am at a disadvantage vs. someone with an AK, especially when that someone does not care if they live or die. I just have a pistol (unless I am able to make it to sporting goods and borrow a long gun and some ammo). So engaging for me would be a last resort. The police have much better weapons, training and tactics, so I try to let them handle the perp if at all possible. That said, if I can tell we are about to be engaged by the perp, then I do what I can to get the family to safety and try to engage the perp myself. With my normal carry piece, which is a .380, I don't like my chances. But someone quoted Clint Eastwood earlier, and he had a quote from the movie "The Outlaw Josey Wales" that I would find appropriate. "Now remember, when things look bad and it looks like you're not gonna make it, then you gotta get mean. I mean plumb, mad-dog mean. Cause if you lose your head and you give up then you neither live nor win." With my full-sized pistols, which I do carry sometimes, I stand a better chance, but I still just have a pistol.

Missing and hitting someone else would be a concern for sure. But people will most likely be running and ducking, as will I. If I'm having to engage, that means I'm one of the closest people to him. I'm probably staying low and generally trying to shoot at a slight upward angle, which would send any bullets that miss him upward and probably over most of the rest of the crowd.
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Old 08-13-2019, 01:08 PM
  #50  
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Here are some interesting videos:


This one is something to keep in mind before deciding to act:

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