Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Non Hunting > Politics
Mass Murder In El Paso Today >

Mass Murder In El Paso Today

Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

Mass Murder In El Paso Today

Old 08-03-2019, 02:56 PM
  #1  
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,348
Default Mass Murder In El Paso Today

The shooter murdered 19 folks and wounded at least 40 others; he is in custody. The shooter had posted a "manifesto" on 4chan and 8chan. Rifle may have been an AK 47. Not surprisingly, the shooter is an admirer of the New Zealand mass murderer. Can you say "copycat"?

falcon is offline  
Old 08-04-2019, 07:00 AM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: WY
Posts: 2,053
Default

I don't know that I'd say "copycat" so much as I would "radically sympathetic"? It's not like these nuts go about intentionally trying to rack up a bigger bodycount than the guy before. However, something happened to radicalize them to the point that they felt powerless enough that the only way to solve what they'd be radicalized to perceive as the problem - was to kill those they associated as the problem. That someone else had done this somewhere else (Christchurch) only provides them a degree of validation that they're not the only person on the planet to believe this way. Maybe a degree of idolization, but that remains to be seen.

And already the politicians are racing to declare that "white nationalism" is a domestic terror threat. In this post-enlightened era, labels are still what we run back to in order to provide a foundation for the solution we're going to propose. And I'm not sure this isn't the genesis of the problem in the first place? If you were to substitute any other race, ethnicity , gender "affiliation", sexual orientation, or non-Christian religion for the category "white", the PC-police would be all over you. "Nationalism" on it's own isn't necessarily bad, it's when it's been radicalized that it becomes a threat. You'd think we'd be smart enough now to excise things like "race" as a cause, and focus instead on what's truly creating the problem? We can only speculate at this point, but rather than "white nationalism" as the motive, maybe we should instead look at it as "radicalized racism"? Radicalized ANYTHING carries with it the danger of being destructive. It's not the Muslim population in general who caused 9/11, it was a narrow, RADICALIZED group of Muslims. It's not the liberals who beat old people and gay conservative journalists over the head with crowbars and throw cement "milkshakes" - it was a narrow, RADICALIZED group of anti-conservatives (be they liberals, anarchists, socialists, communists, who knows - other than they appear to violently disagree with conservatives?).

Where this is going to get messy is how people are RADICALIZED in the first place? I wasn't a big fan of the Patriot Act, simply because I didn't feel that it wouldn't at some point infringe upon free speech. Say something the mob/PC doesn't like, and the FBI shows up at your door? Yet, that's one of the solutions being proposed - that we need to "monitor" these "extremist groups." Who gets to decide who the "extremist groups" are in the first place, though? The mob/PC crowd? Let's go lynch people we don't like then. Welcome to the wild west. You'd think we'd be better than that, but I'm a bit skeptical at this point. I'm already seeing the NRA being nominated as an "extremist group." What's next? 4-H?

And because 2A is now also being blamed, these "weapons of war" in civilian hands, it's going to be interesting to see how this plays out in terms of 1A? "Hate speech" could certainly be a part of the radicalization process. However, we already define "hate speech" so loosely that parents need to worry that their Kindergartner might be expelled because they called another student a "name," that they "bullied" another student. My youngest daughter was accused of "bullying" a teacher's aide … when she was in fifth grade?! I don't know. When I was in school, "bullying" usually resulted in a person being so afraid of another that they would skip school to avoid them - or a fight, after which things generally resolved themselves. Words and phrases are routinely being used out of context. "Concentration Camps" Seems to me there's a big difference between running a camp with the intent of controlling a population and running a camp with the intent of exterminating a population? Kind of waters down how atrocious the Nazis really were? After all, aren't our Border Patrol agents really just the same thing? No. They're not.

This is where we're heading: The day is coming (to some, it probably seems like it's already here?) where you'll be "free" to say what you want, provided it's been approved by the government and it's PC-committee. NFA and GCA '68 did basically that with firearms and other destructive devices already, slicing out cannons and machineguns as almost universally unsuitable for the public to own. Just as some now clamor that certain types of firearms that NFA and GCA '68 allowed are now no longer suitable, some will clamor that what was acceptable as "free speech" ten years ago, is no longer acceptable and must be prohibited and the user incarcerated or otherwise silenced. We have SO many laws, restrictions, and prohibitions now that they're often not even enforceable anymore. It'd be like handing out speeding tickets at the Daytona 500. When the laws are no longer being enforced, what do we become?

We're heading to a scary place, people. We can't call things what they really are, and we won't have any means of defending ourselves against the mob who disagrees with what we may say or believe. If we're going to stop this death spiral, we need to be able to call radicalization what it is, regardless of who commits it or why. That has to start with toning down the political rhetoric. Our leaders haven't been very effective at that the past few (it didn't start with 45) administrations. Our elected representatives have been making political "hay" by throwing gasoline on the fire.

We all need to start acting like grownups.
homers brother is offline  
Old 08-04-2019, 07:05 AM
  #3  
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 878
Default

Absolutely Brilliant!!!
elkman30 is offline  
Old 08-04-2019, 08:33 AM
  #4  
Super Moderator
 
CalHunter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 17,355
Default

Agreed. Excellent analysis HB! Definitely a home run on this one.

Radicalize seems to be the latest term to describe people doing crazy things that hurt and kill other people. It's a common tactic used by just about all political groups to stir up their base and gain additional support for their point(s) of view. Get people mad about something and more of them get involved. Make the "other guy" a bad guy and people now have somebody to hate. Blame whatever problem(s) on that other bad guy and people can conveniently overlook their own responsibilities and ethical lapses. It's not your fault; it's the fault of those bad people who created this problem and enable it to flourish. It's a powerful emotional drug that is devoid of logic, accountability or responsibility.

Many politicians do throw gas on the fire but they're not alone--MSM, most political groups and a lot of other angry people all throw gas on the same cultural/political fire. The people who propose solutions or attempt to discuss the issues inevitably get drowned out, often after being accused of all manner of things by the first group throwing yet more gas on the fire. People can't disagree and discuss/debate things. Instead, they have to vilify anybody with an opposing point of view. It's a mob mentality and a dangerous one that our forefathers tried to protect us against with our Constitution and rights.

Interestingly, nobody seems interested or concerned with determining why and how these people are getting radicalized to the point where they murder people. It's fodder for a political blame game and more radicalizing of different groups bases of power. Kind of along the lines of not letting any crisis go to waste. Again, excellent analysis and kudos!!
CalHunter is offline  
Old 08-04-2019, 09:29 AM
  #5  
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,348
Default

The FBI found the "manifesto" online but could not predict the location of the massacre. This scumbag was captured alive: Methinks that was deliberate. He is now a revered hero to the far out scumbags who advocate mass murder.

Rod Rosenstein called the El Paso shooting "white terrorism": i agree.

https://heavy.com/news/2019/08/patri...paso-shooting/
falcon is offline  
Old 08-04-2019, 10:27 AM
  #6  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 1,058
Default

Are these mass shootings "becoming the new norm?"

I myself...seem to have succumbed to the normalcy of the murder rate in Baltimore City --- since I live on the outskirts of Bmore --- Yet I'm still shocked by the occurrence of mass shootings in the U.S.. I'm fearful...that when people seemingly declare open season on humans with semi automatic weapons, stiff anti gun laws are not far behind.

That said...Trump is dividing the nation with his partisan campaign rhetoric, that stokes the fires of white nationalism; which feeds hatred to some crazed racists to a boiling point, that they can commit crimes of violence with no sense of guilt or remorse.
Erno86 is offline  
Old 08-04-2019, 12:22 PM
  #7  
Boone & Crockett
Thread Starter
 
falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,348
Default

Are these mass shootings "becoming the new norm?"
Yes.

Untold thousands of US citizens belong to white supremacist, Neo Nazi and other crazy a$$ed organizations. The Southern Poverty Law Center tracks these organizations. i had heartburn with the SPLC, mostly because of its former director Morris Dees.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files

After being kicked off twitter, facebook and other social media sites, the crazy butts now hang out on 4chan and 8chan. Go there sometime and sample the putrid hate spewed by some of the nutcases there.

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/
falcon is offline  
Old 08-05-2019, 02:29 AM
  #8  
Dominant Buck
 
Champlain Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 21,327
Default

Every one of these, they seem to come once a day, brings us closer to gun control. The history of the ebb and flow in politics says we will have a political power shift in the future. When that happens the successful attack on our second amendment rights will occur. At some future point the mass shootings will be the catalyst for a big change. Just the fact that this one came in Texas where the shooter had to know many would be cc shows insanity trumps logic.

Last edited by Champlain Islander; 08-05-2019 at 02:42 AM.
Champlain Islander is offline  
Old 08-05-2019, 03:55 AM
  #9  
Nontypical Buck
 
MudderChuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Germany/Calif.
Posts: 2,301
Default

In my mind micro solutions like banning pistol grips etc. are pretty much a feel-good joke. Ban semi-auto rifles and the nut cases, with anything higher than a room temperature IQs, are going to figure out an alternative. It is easier than you'd think.

Macro solutions make more sense. IMO the causes are varied and many. Glamorizing violence, remember "Grand Theft Auto" extra points for running over pedestrians? Remember "Gangster Rap"? The left trying to replace religion with the religion of government. Replacing the "Ten Commandments" with a semi truckload of law.
The solution might be as simple as teaching morality and ethics. IMO one reason young men make good soldiers is their lack of imagination, empathy, ethics, and morality, it just isn't developed yet and usually isn't in many until their mid-twenties, basically an empathy deficiency. Maybe teaching morality, ethics and empathy in the formative years might be helpful?
It is pretty obvious by now most of the shooters are seriously pizzed off about something, sociopaths who lack empathy, thrill killers and/or attention whores.
Protecting the young has to be a survival trait and genetic memory. Otherwise, the human race would have died out long ago. The instinct comes in degrees, but only a sociopath could shoot a two-year-old.

Statistically, for every hundred people you pass on the street at least three would kill you without feeling much, except joy for some and a mild inconvenience for others. Three percent doesn't sound like a big number until you extrapolate, three percent of a hundred million is three million.

As a side note statistically (conservatively) 1500 children are aborted a day.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 08-05-2019 at 04:05 AM.
MudderChuck is offline  
Old 08-05-2019, 08:49 AM
  #10  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Marriottsville, Maryland
Posts: 1,058
Default

Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Yes.

Untold thousands of US citizens belong to white supremacist, Neo Nazi and other crazy a$$ed organizations. The Southern Poverty Law Center tracks these organizations. i had heartburn with the SPLC, mostly because of its former director Morris Dees.

https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files

After being kicked off twitter, facebook and other social media sites, the crazy butts now hang out on 4chan and 8chan. Go there sometime and sample the putrid hate spewed by some of the nutcases there.

https://boards.4chan.org/pol/
I've never visited 4 or 8 channel on social media before...but I have visited and experienced the hateful racist diatribe, spewing out from David Duke's Stormfront forum.
Erno86 is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.