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Don't Look Now, Mueller and His Cronies are in Hot Water

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Don't Look Now, Mueller and His Cronies are in Hot Water

Old 12-18-2018, 03:22 PM
  #61  
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From what I read, Flynn tried to answer some things from just memory and after the interview, he and his lawyer figured out he was misspoken on some things. They submitted a correction to the FBI. Those misstatements appear to be the basis for the charges (from what I've read). If this is the correct information (and I believe it is), then Flynn didn't lie in the sense that we define it (saying something that we know is false). It would also make sense as to why the agents initially said they didn't think Flynn was lying.
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Old 12-18-2018, 04:25 PM
  #62  
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It's also why the Judge pressed him on withdrawing his plea. The reason why he doesn't, Mueller is holding over his head going after his son.

Trump needs to grow a pair a start issuing pardons
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Old 12-18-2018, 05:05 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
It's also why the Judge pressed him on withdrawing his plea. The reason why he doesn't, Mueller is holding over his head going after his son.

Trump needs to grow a pair a start issuing pardons
Exactly! If Flynn would have withdrawn the plea, the judge may have thrown the whole case out! Flynn didn't cooperate because Mueller literally has a gun to his head! Hopefully none of us, especially Mickey, doesn't face the kind of scrutiny Flynn and others have had to face! It's a no-win situation, eventually you will fall into their trap! One contradicting statement, after being asked the same question a hundred times, and BINGO! You lied to the FBI!
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Old 12-18-2018, 07:42 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
It's also why the Judge pressed him on withdrawing his plea. The reason why he doesn't, Mueller is holding over his head going after his son.

Trump needs to grow a pair a start issuing pardons
That is despicable and I believe is illegal all by itself. One of the questions a judge is supposed to ask is if anybody coerced you into making a plea. If this is how Mueller operates, he should be in prison.
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Old 12-18-2018, 10:55 PM
  #65  
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Like I said, all this smoke and mirrors being raised by the right wing fake news ...Deleted by CalHunter... amounted to nothing.

Judge Sullivan wasn't fooled by any of it. He's pissed at Flynn and his lawyers, not Mueller, Comey, or the FBI.

From an article in The Atlantic:

"In a sentencing memo filed last week, Flynn’s lawyers, Robert Kelner and Stephen Anthony, indicated that the FBI agents who interviewed the former national-security adviser in January 2017 about his conversations with the former Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak had entrapped him, lulled him into a false sense of security, and failed to insist that he have a lawyer present for the interview.

"Judge Emmet Sullivan, however, who was set to issue Flynn’s sentence on Monday, was not sympathetic. “How is raising these points consistent with accepting responsibility?” he asked Flynn and his lawyers as they stood before him at the lectern on Tuesday. He then lambasted Flynn for lying to federal agents on White House grounds while serving as the president’s top national-security adviser in January 2017, and for lying about his lobbying work for the Turkish government. “Arguably, you sold out your country,” Sullivan said. He added that while he would take Flynn’s 33-year public-service career and cooperation into account when sentencing him, he would not try to hide his “disdain” and “disgust” for Flynn’s crimes, and asked the government at one point whether Flynn’s conduct rose to the level of treason."

Last edited by CalHunter; 12-19-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 03:57 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Coastal Mountaineer View Post
Like I said, all this smoke and mirrors being raised by the right wing fake news ...Deleted by CalHunter... amounted to nothing.

Judge Sullivan wasn't fooled by any of it. He's pissed at Flynn and his lawyers, not Mueller, Comey, or the FBI.

From an article in The Atlantic:

"In a sentencing memo filed last week, Flynn’s lawyers, Robert Kelner and Stephen Anthony, indicated that the FBI agents who interviewed the former national-security adviser in January 2017 about his conversations with the former Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak had entrapped him, lulled him into a false sense of security, and failed to insist that he have a lawyer present for the interview.

"Judge Emmet Sullivan, however, who was set to issue Flynn’s sentence on Monday, was not sympathetic. “How is raising these points consistent with accepting responsibility?” he asked Flynn and his lawyers as they stood before him at the lectern on Tuesday. He then lambasted Flynn for lying to federal agents on White House grounds while serving as the president’s top national-security adviser in January 2017, and for lying about his lobbying work for the Turkish government. “Arguably, you sold out your country,” Sullivan said. He added that while he would take Flynn’s 33-year public-service career and cooperation into account when sentencing him, he would not try to hide his “disdain” and “disgust” for Flynn’s crimes, and asked the government at one point whether Flynn’s conduct rose to the level of treason."
sorry to burst your bubble but the Judge walked back his comments and has now gave the defense a clear path for reversing any sentence handed down. Turkey is an ally like it or not. There is no possible way to get to treason.

Last edited by CalHunter; 12-21-2018 at 05:18 PM.
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Old 12-19-2018, 06:42 AM
  #67  
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I don't think the judge is looking to give Flynn more time.
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:39 PM
  #68  
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So, how much did the Judge believe in Flynn got railroaded? He not once, not twice, but three times asked Flynn to withdraw his plea. He even went as far as to offering to appoint an independent counsel to take a fresh look at the case and provide a second opinion to Flynn regarding the government's case. We shall see what happens in 90 days but Mueller shot one across the bow of Flynn by charging the two associates for being unregistered foreign agents. Such a bogus charge but when you're broke, you're broke. This case is disgusting and Trump owes it to Flynn to just pardon him now.
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Old 12-19-2018, 05:13 PM
  #69  
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Coastal Mountaineer, the only smoke is the smoke in your eyes that blinds you to the evil of your party, and the only mirrors are those the left refuses to look into for fear of the horror they would see looking back at them.
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Old 12-21-2018, 04:12 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by elkman30 View Post
I have been reading about this issue. It's coming out piece by piece, slowly unraveling. You say you're an arson investigator and are applying what you do in your job to police work. I'm not applying anything. if you look at post #13 you'll see that I was asked if my employer would tolerate a 7 month delay. This is what I answered.

It's really not the same. In an arson investigation, you collect evidence, send it to a lab where it is analyzed and you get lab results and thus evidence. You wait till you get those lab results back because until you do, all you have are observations and speculation based on your training. You have a theory as to where the evidence will lead and the lab results either corroborate your theory or they don't. Without that evidence to prove your theory or suspicion, you don't make an arrest or prosecute somebody. With that evidence, you do both. Pretty straight forward. Actually, trace evidence just helps to identify and maybe prove an accelerant was used. Most of our evidence lies in burn patterns, witness statements, pics we take on scene etc.
In police work and specifically in Flynn's case, the FBI agents reports and testimony is the evidence. There are no lab results. It all hinges on what Flynn said or didn't say. True enough.

With Flynn's prosecution, 2 FBI agents interviewed him but did not tape record the interview. Instead, they wrote reports about the interview some 7+ months later. The only evidence you have is the FBI agents reports and their testimony which came after the reports were submitted. Most police agencies digitally record suspect interviews as those recordings prove exactly what was said, what admonitions were given about a person's right to a lawyer, the suspect's rights and waiver or not and thus provide an unvarnished and accurate account of an interview. That recording serves as protection for the suspect but also as protection for the officer(s) who conducted the interview. If one has a question about how the police interview was conducted or what was said, they only have to listen to the recording to ascertain what exactly was said or done or not. Even courts have stenographer's who transcribe what is said in court. I would be surprised if most if not all arson investigation interviews of suspects also record suspect interviews. It's just a better way to do business and it the individuals involved and the process. So, that's not really how it's done here. Besides, Flynn was not the target of the investigation as we all know. Either he didn't know the rules or he was too proud to play. Either way, he confessed and that's what they have on him.

Now compare that to the FBI's interview of Flynn, his prosecution and Comey's comments which are available in a lot of news sources throughout the political spectrum.
1. The FBI doesn't record interviews. Why not? It would be a wise thing to record interviews. Instead, their official policy is to write a report (known as a 302) shortly after the interview. Obviously the sooner they write the report, the better their recollection of the interview will be. Yes, their notes will help but I kind of doubt they are trained stenographers. Something like that would have been mentioned by now. No cops I know are trained stenographers either, hence the requirement for recording an interview whenever possible. As a matter of fact, none of the arson investigators I've met are trained stenographers either and they all record suspect interviews. I'm not saying the lack of a recording by itself indicates some kind of FBI guilt or wrongdoing but you have to wonder why they don't record suspect interviews. Not a wise policy.
2. FBI policy is to write their reports as soon as possible after conducting a suspect interview. Just about every police agency I know has the same policy. It only makes sense. Even in your arson investigations, I would imagine that after you get all the lab results back, your bosses would not condone you waiting 7+ months to finish writing a report. It's just common sense.
3. Comey admitted he broke protocol by sending 2 agents to the White House directly and without following established protocol. Breaking protocol again isn't some evidence of criminal wrongdoing but it sure makes you wonder why the Director of the FBI would knowingly have his agents break FBI protocols which are established by DOJ. Generally, people take shortcuts when they are in a hurry or lazy. For cops, that often backfires, sometimes spectacularly.
4. The FBI agents who interviewed Flynn told him that he didn't need a lawyer. Such a statement is definitely counter to the Miranda warning which all cops are required to advise suspects before interviewing them in a custodial situation, i.e. they are not free to leave. As an investigator, I'm sure that you are familiar with that warning as it dates back to a U.S. Supreme Court ruling in 1966. That means it applies to the FBI also. Can you imagine telling your next suspect at the beginning of his suspect interview in an arson investigation that he does not need a lawyer? I sure wouldn't want to try something like that as the ramifications would last a lot longer than that individual case.
5. One of the 2 FBI agents sent to interview Flynn at the White House was none other than Peter Stzok. The same guy who was subsequently fired for lying under oath more than once. Can you imagine the Brady issues that come out of that single fact (every single MSM reported on Stzok being fired for lying). Brady vs. Maryland is another Supreme Court case that occurred in 1963. It took a few decades before the ramifications were fully fleshed out but the net result now is cops get fired for lying and DA's will not use any evidence developed by a cop fired for lying or even just proven to have lied. IIRC, Stzok actually managed to get caught lying to an IG or something like that. So anything Stzok wrote in his 302 or testified to would not be admissible in court and would hinder, not help the prosecution.

These are just 5 more pieces of the truth about this investigation. 5 red flags for a judge and which should have been red flags for an AG.
I'm not interested in judging the FBI's activities. I assume they know how to do their job and leave them to it. Flynn's best chance is a pardon from trump. That doesn't seem likely at this point.
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