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The big question to ask after these hurricanes

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The big question to ask after these hurricanes

Old 09-07-2017, 07:12 PM
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Dominant Buck
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Default The big question to ask after these hurricanes

Could America really handle a major attack on our Homeland? What would happen if a few refineries were taken out? Maybe not even them but a few key pipelines? There is a lot of talk about our vulnerability to an EMP but is that all that should concern us? We've moved to a just in time economy. Does that leave us like a sitting duck?
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Old 09-07-2017, 10:09 PM
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I think these hurricanes reveal the obvious truth. The only viable option for evacuation, emergency rescue, and basic survival is fossil fuels (if you believe that is where it comes from) and the internal combustion engine. There is no substitute.

A Tesla is absolutely worthless when these storms hit. Self driving vehicles are just as worthless. Harvey is the third one I have been affected by. They only way people get through these things is individual decision making and people helping themselves and their neighbors when they see someone in need. Government plays a very small role in the actual hands on doing of what has to be done. The pie in the sky community planning of "sustainable renewable energy," and government "expert" management from far away does nothing to help the immediate survival needs when the storm happens.

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Last edited by C. Davis; 09-07-2017 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 09-08-2017, 03:52 AM
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I just saw on the 6:30 am news, a film of traffic moving north on I 95. All you saw was headlights, I am glad I do not have to be on that road just now.
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Old 09-08-2017, 05:25 AM
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I have said this for years and these storms are just exposing our nations complacency. Granted, you can't have a system based off of capitalism and not have some of the negative consequences that comes with it. My neighbor works for a oil company right on the boarder of TX and LA. They have been shutdown since prior to Harvey hitting along with most other refineries in the region. They also shutdown the pipeline which put a hurting on supplies and had to resort to trucking the fuel all over. Now you can't blame the refinery companies, it has been the most cost effective means of getting oil from rigs in the gulf and to the shore in the least distance required and from those refineries to the consumer. Logistically speaking it is never a good idea to have everything in a single basket AKA being predominantly in one location. But this is the downside to these economics. The only other option would be to have the government step in and nobody wants that.

Just think about all the things people need and how over the years these operations have been consolidated into specific areas. Any disaster for those areas has the potential to negatively affect the entire nation and most have no plan b.
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Old 09-08-2017, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by olsaltydog View Post
I have said this for years and these storms are just exposing our nations complacency. Granted, you can't have a system based off of capitalism and not have some of the negative consequences that comes with it. My neighbor works for a oil company right on the boarder of TX and LA. They have been shutdown since prior to Harvey hitting along with most other refineries in the region. They also shutdown the pipeline which put a hurting on supplies and had to resort to trucking the fuel all over. Now you can't blame the refinery companies, it has been the most cost effective means of getting oil from rigs in the gulf and to the shore in the least distance required and from those refineries to the consumer. Logistically speaking it is never a good idea to have everything in a single basket AKA being predominantly in one location. But this is the downside to these economics. The only other option would be to have the government step in and nobody wants that.

Just think about all the things people need and how over the years these operations have been consolidated into specific areas. Any disaster for those areas has the potential to negatively affect the entire nation and most have no plan b.
Just to throw in a thought with reference to centralization of refineries. There seems to be a high resistance to opening refineries in many states. This is the "not in my backyard" phenomenon. It isn't capitalism that dictates the restriction of refineries to Texas and Louisiana, it is the "not in my backyard" deal.
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Old 09-09-2017, 02:10 AM
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I could agree with that in the last decade or two that people have been resistant to the idea. But decades ago the issue more business cost related.
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Old 09-10-2017, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by olsaltydog View Post
I have said this for years and these storms are just exposing our nations complacency. Granted, you can't have a system based off of capitalism and not have some of the negative consequences that comes with it. My neighbor works for a oil company right on the boarder of TX and LA. They have been shutdown since prior to Harvey hitting along with most other refineries in the region. They also shutdown the pipeline which put a hurting on supplies and had to resort to trucking the fuel all over. Now you can't blame the refinery companies, it has been the most cost effective means of getting oil from rigs in the gulf and to the shore in the least distance required and from those refineries to the consumer. Logistically speaking it is never a good idea to have everything in a single basket AKA being predominantly in one location. But this is the downside to these economics. The only other option would be to have the government step in and nobody wants that.

Just think about all the things people need and how over the years these operations have been consolidated into specific areas. Any disaster for those areas has the potential to negatively affect the entire nation and most have no plan b.
im a little curious as to your statement regarding one of the negatives of a capitalist society where things like this occur.....what type of economic system would fare any better in these situations?
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Old 09-11-2017, 05:50 AM
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Originally Posted by scottycoyote View Post
im a little curious as to your statement regarding one of the negatives of a capitalist society where things like this occur.....what type of economic system would fare any better in these situations?
Honestly, none. There is no perfect system, or none as of yet, so they will all have some sort of flaw. We are well aware of the flaws of socialism/communism, and most toting Capitalism flaunt it's many beneficial qualities as why it is one of the most ideal economic systems in the world. It still has it's flaws though, most places naturally set up shop closest to the source of product. This causes centralizing and when say a natural disaster hits that area or region, it causes interruptions coast to coast.
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Old 09-11-2017, 08:11 AM
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Don't forget, there has been a resistance by the democrats to allow building more refineries which goes back at least as far as Clinton. We have more available crude than places to refine it.
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