Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Non Hunting > Politics
Trump's Speech to Congress >

Trump's Speech to Congress

Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

Trump's Speech to Congress

Old 03-01-2017, 11:16 AM
  #11  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 5,790
Default

Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
Stock market is climbing to a new high as a bellwether to the trust that Trump can do as he says. Looks to me that the only people who didn't think he hit it out of the park are Democrats. Results will be hard to ignore so I can see a continued GOP table run when the mid term elections happen. It is funny that before the election some said Trump would ruin the GOP. In reality he destroyed the Dems.

I hope you are right. The danger to Trump doing what he says he will do is not Democrats but instead obstructionist Republicans. If Trump has trouble, it will come from Republicans who are puppets of the establishment. Time will tell.


As you said -- and as Rockport said -- the Democrats are in a difficult place. The things Trump has said he wants to do are -- mostly -- things that the American people want done and which would do great things for Americans. You can quibble on some specific topics, but there is a lot in Trump's agenda that qualifies.

If the Democrats align themselves solidly against Trump and resist him tooth and nail -- as their behavior so far has suggested they plan to do -- and if Trump's policies work (and I think they will), the Democrats are going to be left outdoors without a heated room in a winter of discontent. They will, indeed, suffer yet greater losses in elections in 2018.


If Trump creates significant numbers of jobs in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin . . . what will happen to future Democratic votes in those states? What if Trump convinces union voters that their interests are better served by Trump policies than Democrat policies? What if Trump convinces black voters that their interests are better served by Trump policies than Democrat policies? After all . . . what Democrat policies are there, really? Do they have any policies? I mean, other than voicing solidarity with black lives matter, other than rushing to judgment that any cop shooting a black man is a miscarriage of justice, other than promoting transgender rights, other than promoting sanctuary cities? Do those policies actually advantage union members in any way? Do those policies actually advantage blacks in any way?


You have to guess that the Democrats have not yet found their sea legs after the unexpected defeat of Hillary Clinton. They have not yet adapted to the new reality. Good. The longer they dwell in their fantasy land the more surely they will be smacked down in 2018 and 2020. The longer they dwell in fantasy land, the more territory in the real-world the Republicans will stake out and own.


Bear in mind, when the Democrats finally come to their senses and decide that mere identity politics and Trump bashing aren't going to achieve anything -- especially when Trump actually begins showing results -- they are NOT going to be able to simply say "me too! I want that too!" They HAVE to distinguish themselves from Republicans, they have to put daylight between the Republican position and the Democrat position. But where exactly would that daylight be, and is it a place that can be advantageous to them? We may be living the death of the Democrat party. It is premature to predict that . . . but Democrats can, through doubling down on their current behavior and behaviors over the last decade, drive that wooden stake into their own chest. And I hope they do.

Last edited by Alsatian; 03-01-2017 at 11:26 AM.
Alsatian is offline  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:16 AM
  #12  
Nontypical Buck
 
C. Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kountze, Texas
Posts: 4,595
Default

Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
I'm going to listen to it this morning but right now, BOONDOGGLE if the highlights are true. Obama2.0 trillion dollar infrastructure spending. Refusing to deal with the main drivers of our debt, SS, Medicaid and Medicare? Guys, the hour is late. Our country is broke. Time to go big is now.
I've heard him say he will save all that but I haven't heard any details. I would bet my wife's two cats there will be no cuts....well, that is not a big sacrifice on my part but you know what I mean.

The infrastructure talk has made me nervous ever since I heard him talk about it last year. The Dems are loving it because they see a big glob of money coming with it but supposedly much of it will be from private investment. It will be interesting to see how all that pans out.

I personally believe we have to rebuild the military, and Trump has made it clear that is what he intends to do. That will take a huge amount of money to do.

I think our only hope is that the economy grows enough for us to tread water.

C. Davis
C. Davis is online now  
Old 03-01-2017, 12:15 PM
  #13  
Dominant Buck
 
Fieldmouse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 36,201
Default

It's not the government's job to create jobs. Every job the government create costs 2x the face value at best. Their job is to foster a good eviroment to make it happen. What Trump is doing is straddling the fence. In the end, the family jewels get crushed.
Fieldmouse is offline  
Old 03-01-2017, 12:55 PM
  #14  
Nontypical Buck
 
C. Davis's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Kountze, Texas
Posts: 4,595
Default

Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
It's not the government's job to create jobs. Every job the government create costs 2x the face value at best. Their job is to foster a good eviroment to make it happen. What Trump is doing is straddling the fence. In the end, the family jewels get crushed.
He is on the right track with the proposed corporate tax cuts, and the cutting of regulations if it happens. Where he is overstepping is his "border tax." Bullying a business is overall counter productive to all the good. The business environment should be free. Even 'Trump the omniscient' does not know what is best for an individual company.
His tax cuts will pass without the "border tax." The Republicans should hold firm on that. That will be a fight and I'm sure Trump will make demons out of them.

The way Obama created jobs was to make government bigger. I hope we are not going down that road.

C. Davis
C. Davis is online now  
Old 03-01-2017, 03:19 PM
  #15  
Dominant Buck
 
Champlain Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 20,835
Default

Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
It's not the government's job to create jobs. Every job the government create costs 2x the face value at best. Their job is to foster a good environment to make it happen. What Trump is doing is straddling the fence. In the end, the family jewels get crushed.
I don't think so FM. The guy isn't a politician he is a businessman. He is approaching government just like a business. Fix what is wrong and create profits. I believe business is the centerpiece for all that makes America great. He is working his strength
Champlain Islander is offline  
Old 03-01-2017, 11:50 PM
  #16  
Fork Horn
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 221
Default

Originally Posted by Fieldmouse View Post
It's not the government's job to create jobs. Every job the government create costs 2x the face value at best. Their job is to foster a good eviroment to make it happen. What Trump is doing is straddling the fence. In the end, the family jewels get crushed.
How is meeting with top executives from all over the United States and the World getting them to commit to investing Billions into American factories and jobs, "Straddling the Fence".

You talk out of both sides of your face.
steve4102 is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 12:06 AM
  #17  
Nontypical Buck
 
rockport's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 3,315
Default

Originally Posted by Alsatian View Post
I hope you are right. The danger to Trump doing what he says he will do is not Democrats but instead obstructionist Republicans. If Trump has trouble, it will come from Republicans who are puppets of the establishment. Time will tell.


As you said -- and as Rockport said -- the Democrats are in a difficult place. The things Trump has said he wants to do are -- mostly -- things that the American people want done and which would do great things for Americans. You can quibble on some specific topics, but there is a lot in Trump's agenda that qualifies.

If the Democrats align themselves solidly against Trump and resist him tooth and nail -- as their behavior so far has suggested they plan to do -- and if Trump's policies work (and I think they will), the Democrats are going to be left outdoors without a heated room in a winter of discontent. They will, indeed, suffer yet greater losses in elections in 2018.


If Trump creates significant numbers of jobs in Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Wisconsin . . . what will happen to future Democratic votes in those states? What if Trump convinces union voters that their interests are better served by Trump policies than Democrat policies? What if Trump convinces black voters that their interests are better served by Trump policies than Democrat policies? After all . . . what Democrat policies are there, really? Do they have any policies? I mean, other than voicing solidarity with black lives matter, other than rushing to judgment that any cop shooting a black man is a miscarriage of justice, other than promoting transgender rights, other than promoting sanctuary cities? Do those policies actually advantage union members in any way? Do those policies actually advantage blacks in any way?


You have to guess that the Democrats have not yet found their sea legs after the unexpected defeat of Hillary Clinton. They have not yet adapted to the new reality. Good. The longer they dwell in their fantasy land the more surely they will be smacked down in 2018 and 2020. The longer they dwell in fantasy land, the more territory in the real-world the Republicans will stake out and own.


Bear in mind, when the Democrats finally come to their senses and decide that mere identity politics and Trump bashing aren't going to achieve anything -- especially when Trump actually begins showing results -- they are NOT going to be able to simply say "me too! I want that too!" They HAVE to distinguish themselves from Republicans, they have to put daylight between the Republican position and the Democrat position. But where exactly would that daylight be, and is it a place that can be advantageous to them? We may be living the death of the Democrat party. It is premature to predict that . . . but Democrats can, through doubling down on their current behavior and behaviors over the last decade, drive that wooden stake into their own chest. And I hope they do.
The only thing that can really help the Dems is the republicans by trying to force things down every bodies throat that should be personal beliefs/choices just like the Dems do.

Marijuana needs to be left to the states if not legalized nation wide, religion is a personal belief not to be forced on everyone, and same sex marriage is a personal choice. Things like this is where compromise has to be made. These things are not the hill to die on.

The republican elites are still a problem.
rockport is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 06:05 AM
  #18  
Typical Buck
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 938
Default

I don't think so FM. The guy isn't a politician he is a businessman. He is approaching government just like a business. Fix what is wrong and create profits. I believe business is the centerpiece for all that makes America great. He is working his strength
I think this as well. Democrat talking heads are complaining that Trump is a wolf in sheeps clothing and hiring billionaire buddies to fill his cabinet and thus supporting Wall street, not main street. I think that is the left spinning the news, again.

I see it as Trump putting the appropriate core competencies in place to get the economy where it needs to be.
chazspot is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 07:30 AM
  #19  
Dominant Buck
 
Champlain Islander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vermont
Posts: 20,835
Default

Politics as it changed over the years got us to where we are today...Government run by a few select people who have managed to make a lucrative lifestyle for themselves. Think about this....with over 300 million people now living in the USA the Bush, Clinton and Obama names have run things for the better part of 3 decades. This election cycle we almost had the third Bush and second Clinton. The odds of that occurring are long but it almost happened. Why is that? having an outsider can certainly make some real changes unlike those that were promised by Obama.
Champlain Islander is offline  
Old 03-02-2017, 07:58 AM
  #20  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 5,790
Default

Originally Posted by Champlain Islander View Post
Politics as it changed over the years got us to where we are today...Government run by a few select people who have managed to make a lucrative lifestyle for themselves. Think about this....with over 300 million people now living in the USA the Bush, Clinton and Obama names have run things for the better part of 3 decades. This election cycle we almost had the third Bush and second Clinton. The odds of that occurring are long but it almost happened. Why is that? having an outsider can certainly make some real changes unlike those that were promised by Obama.

Some of my comments will sound like conspiracy theory. It is inherent in a good conspiracy theory that it is, in fact, consistent with observed facts. If a conspiracy theory is inconsistent with facts, it dies. However, consistency with observed facts is NOT sufficient. "I washed my car Saturday morning. Saturday afternoon it rained. Therefore washing my car caused it to rain." That explanation is CONSISTENT with observed facts, but that doesn't make it correct. So, I admit my following observations are conjectures and urge readers to exercise reserve and skepticism in accepting them.


It seems to me that Trump is often saying "What kind of dummy did . . .," and you can fill in the blank as to what was done. Frankly I find his attacks of this nature usually well formed. How can you explain our bad trade deals? What genius rolled those out? What can explain how bad they are? Well, an idiot was in charge and negotiated an idiotic position. That is one explanation. I would suggest a different explanation for why many apparently "brain dead" arrangements remain in place in our government -- and which are difficult to extirpate.


These "brain dead" arrangements were put in place and remain in place because they redound to somebody's profit -- they line the pockets of some powerful individual or individuals who amply reward the "idiots" who put the arrangements in place and the politicians who stonewall attempts to remedy the arrangements (possibly in the form of campaign contributions). This is speculative, admittedly. But it is consistent with what I have observed of the world. Rarely do arrangements exist merely by accident.


My comments do fit with Champlain Islander's comments. How did we get here? Not by accident, but by the slow, patient seeking of advantage by well-heeled individuals behind the scenes who suborn the support of elected officials. This group of elected officials and their hidden patrons are "the establishment." I welcome Trump because he gives signs of not being sold to this hidden establishment. I may not like Trump's churlishness, Trump's brashness, Trump's callousness, Trump's bumptiousness, Trump's hyperbole. If I could find other politicians who effectively countered the establishment, governed in accord with the voter's mandate, and lacked some of these faults of Trump, I would gladly embrace this other in place of Trump. But there are precious few politicians who are independent of that hidden establishment -- and when was the last time a US president was independent of that establishment? Reagan? This is what Trump is talking about when he says he is "going to drain the swamp." He is going to break up the influence peddling racket in Washington DC. Whether he can succeed in that endeavor remains to be seen. Those of us who love a free democracy and self-government -- both Republicans AND Democrats -- should be supporting Donald Trump. He may be the last free president we see in our life times. And I do feel there is significant resistance to him from establishment Republicans -- McCain very visibly, possibly Ryan, possibly McConnell.

Last edited by Alsatian; 03-02-2017 at 08:13 AM.
Alsatian is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.