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Did He Lie?

Old 10-08-2003, 05:58 AM
Fork Horn
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Default Did He Lie?

Yes Saddam needed taken out. But did the president lie to get it done? And if he did he is no better than any other liar.

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Old 10-08-2003, 10:14 PM
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Default RE: Did He Lie?

old news shawn we discussed this a while ago there have been other posts with the same thing
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Old 10-09-2003, 03:17 AM
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Default RE: Did He Lie?

Interesting spin on this. According to the quotes in the article you provided a link for, the government report said this.
" We have no specific intelligence information that Saddam' s regime has directed attacks against U.S. territory," the report stated.

However, it added, " Saddam, if sufficiently desperate, might decide that only an organization such as al-Qaida could perpetrate the type of terrorist attack that he would hope to conduct."

If he " feared an attack that threatened the survival of the regime," the report explained.

" In such circumstances," it added, " he might decide that the extreme step of assisting the Islamist terrorists in conducting a CBW [chemical and biological weapons] attack against the United States would be his last chance to exact vengeance by taking a large number of victims with him."

According to the consensus of Bush' s intelligence services, there was " low confidence" before the war in the views that " Saddam would engage in clandestine attacks against the U.S. Homeland" or " share chemical or biological weapons with al-Qaida."
The original report appears to have placed a low probability on the chance of saddam attacking the U.S. This doesn' t rule out the possibility and is written in typical threat assessment type language as to whether the threat is somehow imminent, very likely or not very likely. Again, the report does not rule out any possibility, just states it' s not very likely.

The author in your piece interprets this to mean that there is NOT a terrorist threat to America instead of referring to the assessment honestly.

But page 4 of the report, called the National Intelligence Estimate, deals with terrorism, and draws conclusions that would come as a shock to most Americans, judging from recent polls on Iraq. The CIA, Defense Intelligence Agency and the other U.S. spy agencies unanimously agreed that Baghdad:

* had not sponsored past terrorist attacks against America,

* was not operating in concert with al-Qaida,

* and was not a terrorist threat to America.
Then you interpret the article to support the following quoted statement. Each time, it changes a little as different things are left out. Interesting.
Yes Saddam needed taken out. But did the president lie to get it done? And if he did he is no better than any other liar.
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Old 10-09-2003, 04:45 AM
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Default RE: Did He Lie?

This article concludes, based on a few lines and selected paragraphs from a 90 page document that the President lied. Amazing. The author completely ignores the fact that the President would not make any decision of this magnitude based on any sole source of information whether from the NIC or his Mother.
The article also chooses to ignore the fact that documents captured in April seem to prove that Iraq did in fact support Al Quiada both monetarily and by providing training facilities for their people.
Does this mean that the author of this article is a liar? He seems to be basing his entire premise based on information from a sole source, now proven to be inaccurate, are we to believe that his analysis of this report is superior to that of the President of the United States?
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Old 10-09-2003, 06:23 AM
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Default RE: Did He Lie?

Good point Coastie!

And does it really matter any more if he did or if he didn' t lie?
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Old 10-09-2003, 07:31 AM
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Default RE: Did He Lie?

The interim findings of David Kay and the Iraq Survey Group make two things abundantly clear: Saddam Hussein' s Iraq was in material breach of its United Nations obligations before the Security Council passed Resolution 1441 last November, and Iraq went further into breach after the resolution was passed.

Kay' s interim findings offer detailed evidence of Hussein' s efforts to defy the international community to the last. The report describes a host of activities related to weapons of mass destruction that " should have been declared to the U.N." It reaffirms that Iraq' s forbidden programs spanned more than two decades, involving thousands of people and billions of dollars.

What the world knew last November about Iraq' s weapons of mass destruction programs was enough to justify the threat of serious consequences under Resolution 1441. What we now know as a result of David Kay' s efforts confirms that Hussein had every intention of continuing his work on banned weapons despite the U.N. inspectors, and that we and our coalition partners were right to eliminate the danger that his regime posed to the world.

Although Kay and his team have not yet discovered stocks of the weapons themselves, they will press on in the months ahead with their important and painstaking work. All indications are that they will uncover still more evidence of Hussein' s dangerous designs.

Before the war, our intelligence had detected a calculated campaign to prevent any meaningful inspections. We knew that Iraqi officials, members of the ruling Baath Party and scientists had hidden prohibited items in their homes.

Lo and behold, Kay and his team found strains of organisms concealed in a scientist' s home, and they report that one of the strains could be used to produce biological agents. Kay and his team also discovered documents and equipment in scientists' homes that would have been useful for resuming uranium enrichment efforts.

Kay and his team have " discovered dozens of WMD-related program activities and significant amounts of equipment that Iraq concealed from the United Nations during the inspections that began in late 2002. The discovery . . . has come about both through the admissions of Iraqi scientists and officials concerning information they deliberately withheld and through physical evidence of equipment and activities that the Iraq Survey Group has discovered that should have been declared to the U.N."

The Kay Report also addresses the issue of suspected mobile biological agent laboratories: " Investigation into the origin of and intended use for the two trailers found in northern Iraq in April has yielded a number of explanations, including hydrogen, missile propellant and BW [biological warfare] production, but technical limitations would prevent any of these processes from being ideally suited to these trailers. That said, nothing . . . rules out their potential use in BW production." Here Kay' s findings are inconclusive. He is continuing to work this issue.

Kay and his team have, however, found this: " A clandestine network of laboratories and safe houses within the Iraqi Intelligence Service that contained equipment subject to U.N. monitoring and suitable for continuing CBW [chemical-biological weapons] research." They also discovered: " a prison laboratory complex, possibly used in human testing of BW agents, that Iraqi officials working to prepare for U.N. inspections were explicitly ordered not to declare to the U.N."

The Kay Report confirms that our intelligence was correct to suspect the al-Kindi Co. of being involved in prohibited activity. Missile designers at al-Kindi told Kay and his team that Iraq had resumed work on converting SA-2 surface-to-air missiles into ballistic missiles with a range of about 250 kilometers, and that this work continued even while UNMOVIC inspectors were in Iraq. The U.N.-mandated limit for Iraq was a range of 150 kilometers.

The Kay Report also confirmed our prewar intelligence that indicated Iraq was developing missiles with ranges up to 1,000 kilometers. Similarly, Kay substantiated our reports that Iraq had tested an unmanned aerial vehicle to 500 kilometers, also in violation of U.N. resolutions.

What' s more, he and his team found that elaborate efforts to shield illicit programs from inspection persisted even after the collapse of Hussein' s regime. Key evidence was deliberately eliminated or dispersed during the postwar period. In a wide range of offices, laboratories and companies suspected of developing weapons of mass destruction, computer hard drives were destroyed, files were burned and equipment was carefully cleansed of all traces of use -- and done so in a pattern that was clearly deliberate and selective, rather than random.

One year ago, when President Bush brought his concerns about Iraq to the United Nations, he made it plain that his principal concern in a post-Sept. 11 world was not just that a rogue regime such as Saddam Hussein' s had WMD programs, but that such horrific weapons could find their way out of Iraq into the arms of terrorists who would have even fewer compunctions about using them against innocent people across the globe.

In the interim report, Kay and his team record the chilling fact that they " found people, technical information and illicit procurement networks that if allowed to flow to other countries and regions could accelerate global proliferation."

Having put an end to that harrowing possibility alone justifies our coalition' s action against Hussein' s regime. But that is not the only achievement of our brave men and women in uniform and their coalition partners.

Three weeks ago I paid my respects at a mass grave in the northern city of Halabja, where on a Friday morning in March 1988, Hussein' s forces murdered 5,000 men, women and children with chemical weapons. Saddam Hussein can cause no more Halabjas. His " Republic of Fear" no longer holds sway over the people of Iraq. For the first time in three decades, the Iraqi people have reason to hope for the future.

President Bush was right: This was an evil regime, lethal to its own people, in deepening material breach of its Security Council obligations, and a threat to international peace and security. Hussein would have stopped at nothing until something stopped him. It' s a good thing that we did.
It doesn' t matter what is found... they could find a lake of anthrax and it wouldn' t be enough. Plus - they' ve only just begun looking.
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