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A Key Zimmerman Witness!!

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A Key Zimmerman Witness!!

Old 07-07-2013, 09:16 AM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Murdy View Post
Yep. That'll happen just as soon as Nancy Grace apologizes to Casey Anthony.
Nancy Grace is a loon and a deliberate idiot, and could use a hard smack across the face from multiple people.
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Old 07-07-2013, 09:18 AM
  #62  
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Yep, the underlying word by many, see something and look the other way. Don't get involved for the sake of safety or your neighbor. Just look the other way.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:00 AM
  #63  
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I think Micky is right,I think he was over charged so that they can try him and then he can get off.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:43 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Lunkerdog View Post
Not at all. That said, one of the things we need to understand as responsible permit holders is that we are not vigilantes.

Not to be misunderstood, I'm not claiming that Zimmerman was acting like a vigilante, because I honestly don't know that. But lets face it, deciding to follow Martin didn't turn out to be one of the best decisions that he ever made.
It is unclear to me how far Zimmerman followed Martin. When 911 told him not to follow, evidently he stopped.

I want to analyze this from a different perspective. Let's suppose Zimmerman had no firearm. If I have a neighborhood watch, I would like members of the watch to walk all through the neighborhood. If one of the members of the watch saw someone who didn't belong . . . I would like them to walk in their path. My hope would be that malefactors would sense that they are visible and will not commit crimes under those circumstances. Isn't that the whole point of such neighborhood watch groups -- to provide a visible presence so criminals do not feel they have the streets to themselves with their acts invisible to others?

Maybe I don't know much about neighborhood watch groups. I assume, however, that they aren't just present as triggers to call the police and then back out. Really, you call 911 when you see a face that is unfamiliar to you? I expect the neighborhood watch to be out walking about.

Now, to extend. What is unnatural about Zimmerman following someone who looks out of place? What is bad about that? In my neighborhood, I have a right to walk where and when I want. Why can't Zimmerman walk behind Martin? It is a free country, isn't it? Again, in a neighborhood experiencing crime, that has constituted a neighborhood watch, why not walk behind someone who is out of place? Again, it is a free country.

Then if someone is foolish enough to attack and try to beat the daylights out of you, to go too far and be threatening your life or your sound health, and you have a gun . . . shoot the dude.

I frankly agree with the guy who says that Zimmerman doing other than was suggested, that Zimmerman simply calling 911 from his truck and leaving it like that, is indeed ceding the ground to the criminals. Have it. Here you go. Police won't be here for 20 minutes.

I walk a lot in my neighborhood. On weekdays I usually walk from 5:30 AM to 6:30 AM. Now it is light at that hour, but most of the year it is freakin dark at that time. I see people out there. I don't take offense at them, I do greet them and call to them. I don't want them to think I'm a threat. I understand that they might rightfully wonder who I am and what I am doing. I wonder that about them. Having done this for a long time, I now realize that there are a surprising number of people out on the sidewalks at that hour. There is a young woman who I often see out running at that hour. She is very physically fit and strong. I would not want to tangle with her. Sometimes she surprises me -- I'll be walking with my head down looking at my feet and whammo, there she is. Since she is running, I try to cede the sidewalk to her and walk in the street to not get in the way of her running. When I run I appreciate this courtesy. There are others out walking dogs. There is an old couple out walking. There is a young black woman I often see. All of this in the dark, in shadowed nooks and crannies of the neighborhood. Things work better under these circumstances to greet and call out to each other. I'm not sure why I'm saying all of that, other than perhaps that it is a good thing that there is foot traffic in a neighborhood . . . ALL OVER THE NEIGHBORHOOD and at all hours. Under those circumstances, when can a criminal really feel like there are no eyes upon them?

From what I've heard, I'm all for a non-guilty verdict for Zimmerman. You attack someone, you had better expect to have your guts ripped out. Take no prisoners.

Last edited by Alsatian; 07-07-2013 at 10:55 AM.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:47 AM
  #65  
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The head wounds Zimmerman sustained at least to me were not even close to something that should have resulted by someone bashing a personís head into the pavement.
Going on actual experience (sans details), I've had blows to the head that all but knocked me unconscious--no blood at all. Passed out once, fell straight backwards to a concrete floor. I'm around 6' 3", at the time I weighed...275 or so (can't remember for sure). Anyway, point being it was a LOT of force slamming the back of my head into the concrete--almost no blood.

Zimmerman looks to be a pretty heavy guy and to have a teenager over power him and then bash his head into the pavement one would think there would be much more damage than a couple of small cuts with a small amount of blood.
As the saying goes, "It ain't the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog". Also, reports are Zimmerman has gained 100 or more lbs since the incident.

Reminds me of a UFC tournament several years ago, where the theme was "David and Goliath". Smaller guys against bigger guys. I think the smaller guys won all but one of the tournaments.

I don't understand the people who say they would confront strangers in their neighborhood faced with Zimmerman as an example of confrontation gone bad.
That's probably due to several things. One, you are female--it's not in your DNA to defend things other than your kids. Two, you are of tiny stature--self explanatory. Three, you are young and I'd bet have little to no experience with such.

Guys have a natural tendency to be protectors. Zimmerman had volunteered to do such for the neighborhood. He'd been trained, so he felt confident with the situation. His neighbors, and possibly him and/or his family, had already suffered loss due to thieves. And how often do you hear of any such happening? Read either of the NRA magazines, you will see numerous stories where someone defended what was theirs and the good guys won.

Personally, I wouldn't respect a guy who was too cowardly to defend himself, his family, or his property. FWIW, been there and done that. Saw my dad and brother do it. Seen friends do it. None of us have even made the local paper.
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Old 07-07-2013, 10:54 AM
  #66  
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Yep, the underlying word by many, see something and look the other way. Don't get involved for the sake of safety or your neighbor. Just look the other way.
Just another reason I am so thankful to live where I do. We don't play that way--we help each other out, if you know you or not.

Just yesterday I was headed towards town, and saw my son pulled over on the side of the road--so I stopped too. He'd seen where a car had run off the road into the bushes and he had ran down to be sure there was nobody trapped or hurt. He had no idea who they were--out of state license plate--all he was worried about was a human being in trouble. The car was empty.

It is unclear to me how far Zimmerman followed Martin. When 911 told him not to follow, evidently he stopped.
That's how I understood the story, and the 911 call--but now some in the media are trying to re-write the story.

Now, to extend. What is unnatural about Zimmerman following someone who looks out of place? What is bad about that? In my neighborhood, I have a right to walk where and when I want. Why can't Zimmerman walk behind Martin? It is a free country, isn't it? Again, in a neighborhood experiencing crime, that has constituted a neighborhood watch, why not walk behind someone who is out of place? Again, it is a free country.
Excellent point. Zimmerman is the bad guy, the idiot, whatever because he was in his own neighborhood checking out someone suspicious. Sad state of affairs in the U.S.A.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:00 PM
  #67  
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In a given circumstance, I may choose to keep my head low, look away, avoid a confrontation with a bad guy. That doesn't mean that is right or a good thing. If my daughter was out running the sidewalks in my neighborhood, and I felt something untoward was going down . . . I would hope I would have the courage to not just duck my head and stay out of it. I would hope I would do what was needed so she could be safe.

My town is extremely safe. It gets high marks for safe communities/low crime/low violent crime. I don't know what it would be like to live somewhere where burglary was common. I would probably move away. Some people, however, can't move away. They have to live with it. I suspect for them it is better to engage and resist than to just lock their doors and shut their eyes.

If law enforcement and the justice system took care of business, we wouldn't be having this discussion, by the way. For whatever reason, crime is accepted and acceptable at a level that it wasn't formerly. I know that sounds like I'm blaming law enforcement and the justice system, I don't intend to. I do want to say that when they don't take care of business . . . taking care of business falls to others. Either business is taken care of by the neighborhood or the neighborhood is ceded to the hands of the criminals. Again, I would just move. I have the resources to do that. Others DO NOT have that option.
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Old 07-07-2013, 12:27 PM
  #68  
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I took the lessons in my CPL class to heart. They made a great point of the fact that carrying a gun gave you the ability to kill someone or cause serious injury. That can have a great impact on your life.

It's too bad Zimmerman wasn't thinking of HIS family when he got into this. Even if the jury deliberates for two minutes and comes back with Not Guilty, he's going to be paying a huge amount of attorney fees. And what if, after three days of deliberation, they find him guilty of second degree murder.

The instructor at my class presented a couple of hypothetical scenarios which applied not just to little girls like me, but to any 270 pound, six foot six macho males as well.

What do you guys think?

1- You're in the mall parking lot and you see two guys fighting. One of them is getting a real beating. You're carrying. What do you do?

Answer: You call 911 and stay on the line so you can direct the cops. Try to get some identity clues in case someone takes off before the cops arrive.

2- You glance out the window and see a pickup truck you have never seen before in your neighbor's driveway. And it looks like someone is trying to get in the side door. You know your neighbor is out of town. You have your gun handy and you have a CPL. What do you do?

Answer: You call 911 and stay on the line so you can assist in directing the cops when they arrive.

The idea is that you don't do anything you wouldn't do if you were unarmed. And if you just MUST get involved, leave the gun behind.
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Old 07-07-2013, 03:36 PM
  #69  
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It's too bad Zimmerman wasn't thinking of HIS family when he got into this.
Who would have thought in a million years it would have turned out like it did? Maybe he was thinking of his family, and thought he was helping get a thug/thief out of his neighborhood and off the streets where they couldn't affect his family.

The instructor at my class presented a couple of hypothetical scenarios...
And hypothetically everyone lives happily ever after. Sorry, I live in the real world.

1- You're in the mall parking lot and you see two guys fighting. One of them is getting a real beating. You're carrying. What do you do?

Answer: You call 911 and stay on the line so you can direct the cops. Try to get some identity clues in case someone takes off before the cops arrive.
That would be funny if it weren't so sad. There's no way to give a definitive answer with so little information. Letting someone get their brains beaten out when you could easily stop it is a lousy answer either way.

2- You glance out the window and see a pickup truck you have never seen before in your neighbor's driveway. And it looks like someone is trying to get in the side door. You know your neighbor is out of town. You have your gun handy and you have a CPL. What do you do?

Answer: You call 911 and stay on the line so you can assist in directing the cops when they arrive.
Same as #1. Where I live, the cops could take an hour to get here--if they could even find the place.

The idea is that you don't do anything you wouldn't do if you were unarmed. And if you just MUST get involved, leave the gun behind.
So what is the point of having a weapon and learning to use it if all you are supposed to do is hide and/or run?

Here's a scenario for you. You see a guy taking a real beating in the parking lot. Everyone is doing just what you said--not getting involved, maybe dialing 911. The guy getting the crap beat out of him is your husband. The thug has a tire tool and is about to bash his head in. You left your weapon behind, but you recognize 3 other people who took the class with you and you know they have their weapons. They are staying back at a safe distance with their cell phone to their ear while your husband's brains are distributed around the parking lot.

Do you later shake their hand at your husband's funeral and tell them what a good job they did, or do you ask them "why didn't you save his life"?

If one of them were go be going for their weapon, do you stop them and let the perp give your hubby permanent brain damage because that's what the instructor said to do?

Here's another. You glance out the window to check on your kids in the yard, after you had to run in the house for a 30-second potty break. You see a man grab your little girls and start dragging them toward a van. There's nobody else around, just you and your weapon. What do you do? Do you run out the door and save your children, or do you call 911 and hope for the best?

I sincerely hope that, if you are ever in a bad situation, the people around you don't think like you do.
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Old 07-07-2013, 04:02 PM
  #70  
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You're deliberately missing the point here Chad. The exact purpose of carrying a gun is to protect yourself and/or your family.

Good grief, did I REALLY have to explain that to you?

Okay, maybe Zimmerman thought that this couldn't happen in a million years. But now we know it can, don't we?

You have to think ahead. That's why the Creator gave us a brain. You can learn from experience. But you can profit even more if you learn from the experience of others.

It obviously never occurred to Zimmerman that the "suspicious character" he was following might turn around and jump him. It obviously didn't occur to Martin that the "cracker" following him might be packing a gun.

Situations can differ, but the point I'm trying to make is that carrying a gun is for the personal protection of yourself and your family. You can take on a great deal of risk when you start assuming some of the duties of a cop.
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