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A Key Zimmerman Witness!!

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A Key Zimmerman Witness!!

Old 07-10-2013, 02:13 PM
  #131  
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Originally Posted by LBR View Post
Still waiting for the explanation as how Zimmerman basically following the instructions given by DLG's CCW teacher was being "stupid".

Now we have reports that the racism that got Zimmerman behind the 8-ball to begin with comes all the way from eric holder. No comment still?
I took the class long before the Zimmerman case. In fact I wasn't even 21 yet. (You don't have to be 21 to take the class.)

But I suspect that concealed carry instructors all over the country are using Zimmerman as an example of how NOT to wind up like Zimmerman.

It seems as though people have a lot of difficulty putting themselves in Zimmerman's shoes and appreciating the horror he's going through. He's been on trial for MURDER. Even if he's found not guilty, can you imagine the attorney fees?

I don't think it will happen, but what if that all female jury decides he's guilty?

I just would NOT want to be George Zimmerman.

I'm sure he believes he was justified in defending himself and I agree. But I'm sure he has wished many, many times that he had stayed in his truck that night.
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Old 07-10-2013, 02:27 PM
  #132  
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But I suspect that concealed carry instructors all over the country are using Zimmerman as an example of how NOT to wind up like Zimmerman.
Why? According to accounts and as indicated by the 911 calls, he did just what you said your CCW instructor said to do. He called 911. He tried to identify the suspicious character. He tried to avoid confrontation with the suspect. He retreated to his vehicle when told to do so by the 911 operator. He was in his OWN gated community. He did nothing illegal, nothing to provoke an attack. Why is he "stupid"?

It seems as though people have a lot of difficulty putting themselves in Zimmerman's shoes and appreciating the horror he's going through. He's been on trial for MURDER. Even if he's found not guilty, can you imagine the attorney fees?
I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but again--just what did he do wrong? A racist called into the Sean Hannity show today and referred to Zimmerman as a "creepy white boy" and said "If he (Zimmerman) sticks his head out the door, he's gonna' get popped".

[QUOTE] I'm sure he believes he was justified in defending himself and I agree.[/QUOTE]

Justified? Before he was stupid. Which is it?

But I'm sure he has wished many, many times that he had stayed in his truck that night.
Probably so. Then again, if Martin had turned out to be a rapist, murderer, molester, etc. and if Zimmerman had stayed in his truck while someone was raped or murdered or a child was molested, he would have wished many, many times he'd got off his butt and done something to prevent it. Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy.

Would it help if I listed all those questions again?
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Old 07-10-2013, 04:38 PM
  #133  
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[quote=LBR;4066402]Why? According to accounts and as indicated by the 911 calls, he did just what you said your CCW instructor said to do. He called 911. He tried to identify the suspicious character. He tried to avoid confrontation with the suspect. He retreated to his vehicle when told to do so by the 911 operator. He was in his OWN gated community. He did nothing illegal, nothing to provoke an attack. Why is he "stupid"?



I wouldn't want to be in his shoes, but again--just what did he do wrong? A racist called into the Sean Hannity show today and referred to Zimmerman as a "creepy white boy" and said "If he (Zimmerman) sticks his head out the door, he's gonna' get popped".

I'm sure he believes he was justified in defending himself and I agree.[/QUOTE]

Justified? Before he was stupid. Which is it?

Okay, I'll try one more time, but only once so I hope it sinks in.

I said he was justified in defending himself. But he was stupid for putting himself in the situation where he had. Okay? Do you get the difference?

Probably so. Then again, if Martin had turned out to be a rapist, murderer, molester, etc. and if Zimmerman had stayed in his truck while someone was raped or murdered or a child was molested, he would have wished many, many times he'd got off his butt and done something to prevent it. Monday-morning quarterbacking is easy.

Martin was NOT in the act of raping or murdering anyone. He was just walking back from the convenience store. There was no crime until he jumped Zimmerman. Martin, of course, violated that rule, "Don't mess with people strange to you." But, obviously, Zimmerman made the same mistake.


Would it help if I listed all those questions again?

I have already answered them at least a couple of times just out of courtesy. But I'll try once more, but just once so please pay attention.

I'll use an example. This should be easy. You have gone down to a convenience store like the one in our neighborhood which gets robbed on a regular basis. The company makes their own donuts and ice cream which are really good, so maybe you're going to get an ice cream cone. You park on the side so you can get out quickly. As you're walking around to the front to go inside, you notice through the front windows that someone is pointing a gun at the clerk and the clerk is putting money from the register into a donut bag. The guy with the gun hasn't seen you because you are sort of behind him and off to the side. You can see a couple other people in the store, but you aren't sure how many are inside.

You're pretty sure there is a button to notify the cops, but not positive if they have been notified. They will take about six minutes to arrive. They won't use the siren so you won't know if they are on the way or not. Obviously you don't know if his gun is loaded. You can't even be sure it's real. You also don't know if he's acting alone or has an accomplice inside.

You have a CPL and you are carrying whatever you usually carry. You also have your cell phone. Response will probably be two police cars, each with one cop. One will come up from the side street and park where you parked. The other will come from the opposite direction and come through the Laundromat parking lot and park where the robber will not see it. Any additional cars that show up will cover the main street to prevent a getaway, if they get there in time. Remember, the first car won't get there for about six minutes. It's a small town, but it's not unusual for four or five police cars to show up within a couple of minutes of each other. So if you are going to engage in a robbery here, you should plan to be in and out in less than four minutes.

Now what do you do?

Answers Tomorrow!

You're probably wondering how she knows so much about this

They get milk there for the girls-best price in town

And they occasionally pick up donuts and flavored coffees there

The people who work there will tell you all about it
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Old 07-10-2013, 09:46 PM
  #134  
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I said he was justified in defending himself. But he was stupid for putting himself in the situation where he had. Okay? Do you get the difference?


So, he was stupid for following the advice of your CCW instructor, or at least what you said he advised? Still makes no sense.

Martin was NOT in the act of raping or murdering anyone.


I never said he was. Zimmerman didn't know what he was up to. All he knew was Martin was acting suspicious and wasn't a member of the gated) community.

I have already answered them at least a couple of times...


No, you absolutely have not. You have flat ignored most of them, or "answered" questions I didn't ask. Big difference.

What does your scenario have to do with any of the questions I asked? Answer, right now--absolutely nothing.

If I get a chance, I'll post all the questions you dodged later. I don't expect a straight answer to...well, to any of them...but there's always a chance I suppose.
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Old 07-11-2013, 02:34 AM
  #135  
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Post your questions again Chad. I know I answered already, but I'll try to type slowly this time.



May The Sheep Be With You
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Old 07-11-2013, 05:35 AM
  #136  
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I say use the cell phone to call the police and then retreat to a safe place. If you are an off duty LEO then you act. If you aren't a police officer then you aren't trained to be involved with stopping the robbery and might complicate the end result in a negative way. A gun doesn't make a person a LEO.

I will edit it in one way. If the person is inside the store and fears that they will be killed then a decision to act would be supported. When I carry I do so for personal protection and not to uphold the law. The boys and girls in blue are much better trained in that capacity.

Last edited by Champlain Islander; 07-11-2013 at 06:13 AM.
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Old 07-11-2013, 06:21 AM
  #137  
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Post your questions again Chad. I know I answered already, but I'll try to type slowly this time.
Lol--you should know better. Smart aleck remarks won't slow me down.


So hide and hope the thugs don't steal too much of your property?

If things had gone totally different--if Martin had been the thief, a drug dealer, child molester, etc. and Zimmerman keeping tabs on him had resulted in his capture, then Zimmerman would be a hero.

If the above were true but Zimmerman didn't keep tabs until the cops got there, then what?
Guys have a natural tendency to be protectors. Zimmerman had volunteered to do such for the neighborhood. He'd been trained, so he felt confident with the situation. His neighbors, and possibly him and/or his family, had already suffered loss due to thieves. And how often do you hear of any such happening? Read either of the NRA magazines, you will see numerous stories where someone defended what was theirs and the good guys won.

So what is the point of having a weapon and learning to use it if all you are supposed to do is hide and/or run?

Do you later shake their hand at your husband's funeral and tell them what a good job they did, or do you ask them "why didn't you save his life"?
If one of them were go be going for their weapon, do you stop them and let the perp give your hubby permanent brain damage because that's what the instructor said to do?


Here's another. You glance out the window to check on your kids in the yard, after you had to run in the house for a 30-second potty break. You see a man grab your little girls and start dragging them toward a van. There's nobody else around, just you and your weapon. What do you do? Do you run out the door and save your children, or do you call 911 and hope for the best?
What if you couldn't tell it was your hubby getting his skull rearranged, and only found out after the fact? What if you could have done something to save him, but instead chose to stand by with a cell phone and dial 911? What would you tell that instructor the next time you saw him? "Thank you so much for your wise instruction"?
To that one I'll add--what if you couldn't tell it was your kids being dragged to that van. Do you act, or call 911 and let the unthinkable happen to those kids because you didn't think they were yours?

Don't do anything you wouldn't do if you didn't have a gun in your hand, unless it's someone you really care about?
So, if there's a minute chance it will cause you problems, cower rather than do the right thing?
It appears Zimmerman played by the book--even followed your instructor's advice. He was in his own neighborhood, called 911,tried to identify the suspect, didn't try to confront him, evidently retreated when told to do so by the 911 operator, screamed for help, then only after suffering substantial personal injury did he use his weapon from an obviously defensive position--and his life is still ruined. What exactly did we "learn" from his actions?
What if if were your little girls being dragged to a van, and your neighbors decided to "follow the rules"? Just call 911 from a safe distance, but otherwise don't get involved, even if they could feasibly stop your girls from being taken? Not so black and white anymore, is it?
At any rate, how was he "stupid"? He obeyed the law--even obeyed your instructor--but that was stupid?
What if Zimmerman had followed the rules of the law, done just what the 911 operator told him to do, and even followed the instruction you were given in your CCW class? Oh wait...he did do all those things. And that's stupid?
Still waiting for the explanation as how Zimmerman basically following the instructions given by DLG's CCW teacher was being "stupid".
Why? According to accounts and as indicated by the 911 calls, he did just what you said your CCW instructor said to do. He called 911. He tried to identify the suspicious character. He tried to avoid confrontation with the suspect. He retreated to his vehicle when told to do so by the 911 operator. He was in his OWN gated community. He did nothing illegal, nothing to provoke an attack. Why is he "stupid"?

That's a good start. I won't get my hopes up. Hopefully I didn't copy and paste them too quickly--lol. Try giving some specific answers--not vague generalities.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:34 AM
  #138  
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Is anyone else seeing this?
Attached Thumbnails A Key Zimmerman Witness!!-judge.jpg  
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:38 AM
  #139  
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Originally Posted by deernutz View Post
Is anyone else seeing this?
no, but I am seeing this: The court has it's marching orders, which came down when special prosecutor was assigned: GET A CONVICTION. The judge would like to oblige.
NOTE: I'm saying, the state wants to win... justice is secondary. And this case is about putting stink on armed self-defense.
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Old 07-11-2013, 08:58 AM
  #140  
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Originally Posted by Catus Magnus View Post
no, but I am seeing this: The court has it's marching orders, which came down when special prosecutor was assigned: GET A CONVICTION. The judge would like to oblige.
NOTE: I'm saying, the state wants to win... justice is secondary. And this case is about putting stink on armed self-defense.
Good call Catus... Have you seen what the state is trying to pull now???

After convincing the judge presiding over George Zimmermanís second-degree murder trial to allow jurors to consider manslaughter, prosecutors sent the neighborhood watch volunteerís defense lawyer into a rage by asking the judge to also include felony murder -- based on child abuse -- in the jury instructions.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2013/07/1...z2YkmG7QR6
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