Do You Support Ethanol subsidies??
08-29-2011, 12:40 PM
#1
Super Moderator
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Northern California
Posts: 18,158
Do You Support Ethanol subsidies??
I came across this story and was thinking that I don't support ethanol subsidies and think it's an expensive waste of federal funding and local resources (especially excessive water consumption). What does everybody else think and, more importantly, why do you think so?
http://cowboybyte.com/516/iowa-farme...hanol-mandate/
http://cowboybyte.com/516/iowa-farme...hanol-mandate/
08-29-2011, 01:04 PM
#2
Typical Buck
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 970
Ethanol doesn't do enough good to offset the costs to produce it.
All the ethanol requirements have done is too raise corn prices, and gas costs, for no real net benefit.
That, and we can never produce enough corn to make it viable. Corn is the crop that depletes the resources in a field and has to be rotated out, or a ton of fertilizers have to be brought in, to keep a field going year after year. Just ask a farmer about it. They'll tell you the truth about crops.
I thought it was stupid when Wisconsin was one of the first to mandate its use in gasoline. I think it's just as stupid today, if not more so, now that what the farmers in my family predicted would happen has happened. They foresaw a corn shortage and increased prices as it was apparent the law would be passed.
All the ethanol requirements have done is too raise corn prices, and gas costs, for no real net benefit.
That, and we can never produce enough corn to make it viable. Corn is the crop that depletes the resources in a field and has to be rotated out, or a ton of fertilizers have to be brought in, to keep a field going year after year. Just ask a farmer about it. They'll tell you the truth about crops.
I thought it was stupid when Wisconsin was one of the first to mandate its use in gasoline. I think it's just as stupid today, if not more so, now that what the farmers in my family predicted would happen has happened. They foresaw a corn shortage and increased prices as it was apparent the law would be passed.
08-29-2011, 01:15 PM
#3
Spike
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 37
Originally Posted by Sfury
Ethanol doesn't do enough good to offset the costs to produce it.
All the ethanol requirements have done is too raise corn prices, and gas costs, for no real net benefit.
That, and we can never produce enough corn to make it viable. Corn is the crop that depletes the resources in a field and has to be rotated out, or a ton of fertilizers have to be brought in, to keep a field going year after year. Just ask a farmer about it. They'll tell you the truth about crops.
I thought it was stupid when Wisconsin was one of the first to mandate its use in gasoline. I think it's just as stupid today, if not more so, now that what the farmers in my family predicted would happen has happened. They foresaw a corn shortage and increased prices as it was apparent the law would be passed.
All the ethanol requirements have done is too raise corn prices, and gas costs, for no real net benefit.
That, and we can never produce enough corn to make it viable. Corn is the crop that depletes the resources in a field and has to be rotated out, or a ton of fertilizers have to be brought in, to keep a field going year after year. Just ask a farmer about it. They'll tell you the truth about crops.
I thought it was stupid when Wisconsin was one of the first to mandate its use in gasoline. I think it's just as stupid today, if not more so, now that what the farmers in my family predicted would happen has happened. They foresaw a corn shortage and increased prices as it was apparent the law would be passed.
08-29-2011, 01:18 PM
#4
Little Doe Peep
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 14,945
Subsidizing masks the true cost, not just the cost of production, but the effect of increasing corn prices on groceries.
The time when we could afford to subsidize projects because it seems like a nice thing to do has passed. We can no longer afford it. We, and particularly Congress needs to realize that.
The time when we could afford to subsidize projects because it seems like a nice thing to do has passed. We can no longer afford it. We, and particularly Congress needs to realize that.
08-29-2011, 01:32 PM
#5
Banned
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 264
Originally Posted by sachiko
Subsidizing masks the true cost, not just the cost of production, but the effect of increasing corn prices on groceries.
The time when we could afford to subsidize projects because it seems like a nice thing to do has passed. We can no longer afford it. We, and particularly Congress needs to realize that.
The time when we could afford to subsidize projects because it seems like a nice thing to do has passed. We can no longer afford it. We, and particularly Congress needs to realize that.
08-29-2011, 03:41 PM
#6
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,381
Ethanol is another welfare subsidy for the big time farmers and giant agri-businesses.
Brazilian ethanol is made from sugar cane. Brazil produces 560 gallons of ethanol from an acre of sugar cane. The US produces 420 gallons from an acre of corn.
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agd.../HofJan09.html
Brazilian ethanol is made from sugar cane. Brazil produces 560 gallons of ethanol from an acre of sugar cane. The US produces 420 gallons from an acre of corn.
http://www.extension.iastate.edu/agd.../HofJan09.html
08-29-2011, 03:50 PM
#7
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: IL
Posts: 6,575
Hell No!!!!
Go Bio-diesel.
Buy a diesel.
A recent documentary I watched stated that it takes 1 gallon of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of ethanol.
1 gallon of bio-diesel will produce 3 gallons of bio-diesel.
Go Bio-diesel.
Buy a diesel.
A recent documentary I watched stated that it takes 1 gallon of ethanol to produce 1 gallon of ethanol.
1 gallon of bio-diesel will produce 3 gallons of bio-diesel.
Last edited by salukipv1; 08-29-2011 at 04:00 PM.
08-29-2011, 03:52 PM
#8
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
No I do not support ethanol subsidies,,, heck, I dont support ethanol period. Cost too much to distil, hard on engines, low energy yield (lower than most hydrocarbons), and takes up valuble land for food crops.
Last edited by burniegoeasily; 08-29-2011 at 04:21 PM.
08-29-2011, 04:41 PM
#9
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 37,721
I saw my first pump that had it. I guess it was the first one I really noticed. I bought the real stuff anyway.
As for Brazil. We charge a hefty import tax on their stuff so as to make it unmarketable here in the US. So in reality, it's not about saving the planet.
As for Brazil. We charge a hefty import tax on their stuff so as to make it unmarketable here in the US. So in reality, it's not about saving the planet.
08-29-2011, 11:19 PM
#10
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Wy
Posts: 8,871
Nope as mentioned - its not cost effective & there are better choices to make fuel from. Without its subsides & market minipulations( nonfree market import/ large protectionist tariffs & ever increasing role in higher food costs etc - it would fall flat on its face on its own.
And yet even more may be mandated for future use by the EPA etc if it gets its way( should keep engine, carb etc repair ppl busy also?)
Saturday, January 8, 2011
GROUP SUES EPA OVER 15% ETHANOL MANDATE
(USAgNet /NebraskaAgConnection.com) -- USAgNet reports, "A festering dispute over allowing more ethanol in gasoline has landed in court." According to the story, a "coalition of auto, boat and outdoor power equipment manufacturers is asking the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit to consider whether the EPA violated federal regulations" when in October the agency raised the maximum ethanol level in gasoline to 15% for 2007 model year and newer cars and light trucks.
http://www.nebraskaagconnection.com/story-national.php?Id=2541&yr=2010
And yet even more may be mandated for future use by the EPA etc if it gets its way( should keep engine, carb etc repair ppl busy also?)
Saturday, January 8, 2011
GROUP SUES EPA OVER 15% ETHANOL MANDATE
(USAgNet /NebraskaAgConnection.com) -- USAgNet reports, "A festering dispute over allowing more ethanol in gasoline has landed in court." According to the story, a "coalition of auto, boat and outdoor power equipment manufacturers is asking the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit to consider whether the EPA violated federal regulations" when in October the agency raised the maximum ethanol level in gasoline to 15% for 2007 model year and newer cars and light trucks.
http://www.nebraskaagconnection.com/story-national.php?Id=2541&yr=2010
