So how far will Israel Go?
06-02-2010, 11:19 AM
#11
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,349
Originally Posted by Duckbutter48
I almost feel bad for Israel, I cannot imagine if one of our neighbor countries were lauching rockets into our local stores and we had to worry more about what are allies thought we should do more then just take care of business.
I'm not trying to beat up on you particularly. Most US citizens are blissfully unaware of the history of Israel and the history of the occupied territories. That does not make this theft right.
I'm an American citizen, not an Israeli citizen. I don't see that supporting Israel, right or wrong, ought to be our motto. It seems to me that rather than the US gaining much from our association with Israel, in fact the relationship is much more one-sided in the opposite sense.
Now you don't have to agree with me, and I assume few on this forum will agree with me. But it is worth considering and bearing in mind that many people in the world see it as I described above -- including much of Europe. I'm not sure it would be desirable for Israel to take too hard a position on this, this is how large, all consuming wars seem to erupt. The Middle East just right now is quite the powder keg, and it is not altogether certain how the cards would fall if the deck were just thrown into the air.
Further, many Jewish citizens of Israel see it this way as well and wish the government would stop their brinksmanship that they conduct in the interest of gobbling up more Palestinian lands. The game is clear enough. Possession IS 9/10s of the issue, and when any ultimate settlement of the occupied territories is arrived at, it is a fair guess the settlements won't flip over to Palestinian hands. By deferring the settling the issue of the occupied territories, the Israeli government hopes to extend the ultimate fixed boundaries of Israel, that is the end game, and it is pretty clear. But the price is unrest and attack. Many Israeli's aren't willing to pay the price of having their children subject to being blown up in discoteques so that the final boundaries of Israel may be larger. Many want peace and lament the egregious treatment of the Palestinians.
Last edited by Alsatian; 06-02-2010 at 11:25 AM.
06-02-2010, 11:40 AM
#12
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 37,814
I'm not trying to beat up on you particularly. Most US citizens are blissfully unaware of the history of Israel and the history of the occupied territories. That does not make this theft right.
06-02-2010, 12:08 PM
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Oh, most of us aware, we just believe in God almighty and His convenant with the Jews.
Sadly most americans blissfully are ignorant of the Holy Bible.
Another fact most americans as yourself are not aware of. It was accepted for centuries that until really the last 100 years. (small space in history) that if you have the might, you have the right. In other words, no matter if your indian, inuit, or Spanish in Fl. If your not strong enough to hold your land, you lose it. The basis for the start of the United States.
Did you really blissfully believe that everybody was peaceful and these country boundry lines were placed there by peaceful means thruout history???
Sadly most americans blissfully are ignorant of the Holy Bible.
Another fact most americans as yourself are not aware of. It was accepted for centuries that until really the last 100 years. (small space in history) that if you have the might, you have the right. In other words, no matter if your indian, inuit, or Spanish in Fl. If your not strong enough to hold your land, you lose it. The basis for the start of the United States.
Did you really blissfully believe that everybody was peaceful and these country boundry lines were placed there by peaceful means thruout history???
Originally Posted by Alsatian
Do remember the circumstances. Israel is squatting on a ton of Palestinian land which is not Israel's -- hence the term "occupied territories." Israel has disingenuously introduced some 200+ settlements into these occupied territories -- ever hear of the expression "possession is 9/10s of the law?" -- and this in a manner as to honeycomb the Palestinian lands very effectively. So, under the circumstances that an invader is expropriating your lands, when would you start sending rockets on them or would you meekly acquiesce in the theft of your lands?
I'm not trying to beat up on you particularly. Most US citizens are blissfully unaware of the history of Israel and the history of the occupied territories. That does not make this theft right.
I'm an American citizen, not an Israeli citizen. I don't see that supporting Israel, right or wrong, ought to be our motto. It seems to me that rather than the US gaining much from our association with Israel, in fact the relationship is much more one-sided in the opposite sense.
Now you don't have to agree with me, and I assume few on this forum will agree with me. But it is worth considering and bearing in mind that many people in the world see it as I described above -- including much of Europe. I'm not sure it would be desirable for Israel to take too hard a position on this, this is how large, all consuming wars seem to erupt. The Middle East just right now is quite the powder keg, and it is not altogether certain how the cards would fall if the deck were just thrown into the air.
Further, many Jewish citizens of Israel see it this way as well and wish the government would stop their brinksmanship that they conduct in the interest of gobbling up more Palestinian lands. The game is clear enough. Possession IS 9/10s of the issue, and when any ultimate settlement of the occupied territories is arrived at, it is a fair guess the settlements won't flip over to Palestinian hands. By deferring the settling the issue of the occupied territories, the Israeli government hopes to extend the ultimate fixed boundaries of Israel, that is the end game, and it is pretty clear. But the price is unrest and attack. Many Israeli's aren't willing to pay the price of having their children subject to being blown up in discoteques so that the final boundaries of Israel may be larger. Many want peace and lament the egregious treatment of the Palestinians.
I'm not trying to beat up on you particularly. Most US citizens are blissfully unaware of the history of Israel and the history of the occupied territories. That does not make this theft right.
I'm an American citizen, not an Israeli citizen. I don't see that supporting Israel, right or wrong, ought to be our motto. It seems to me that rather than the US gaining much from our association with Israel, in fact the relationship is much more one-sided in the opposite sense.
Now you don't have to agree with me, and I assume few on this forum will agree with me. But it is worth considering and bearing in mind that many people in the world see it as I described above -- including much of Europe. I'm not sure it would be desirable for Israel to take too hard a position on this, this is how large, all consuming wars seem to erupt. The Middle East just right now is quite the powder keg, and it is not altogether certain how the cards would fall if the deck were just thrown into the air.
Further, many Jewish citizens of Israel see it this way as well and wish the government would stop their brinksmanship that they conduct in the interest of gobbling up more Palestinian lands. The game is clear enough. Possession IS 9/10s of the issue, and when any ultimate settlement of the occupied territories is arrived at, it is a fair guess the settlements won't flip over to Palestinian hands. By deferring the settling the issue of the occupied territories, the Israeli government hopes to extend the ultimate fixed boundaries of Israel, that is the end game, and it is pretty clear. But the price is unrest and attack. Many Israeli's aren't willing to pay the price of having their children subject to being blown up in discoteques so that the final boundaries of Israel may be larger. Many want peace and lament the egregious treatment of the Palestinians.
06-02-2010, 12:10 PM
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Fieldmouse
It's not theft and never was theft. By the laws of war, any ground taken from the aggressor, is deemed the property of. Isreal won this land by defending themselves. They have tried numorous times to return it but the previous owners, Jordan, Egypt and others. However, they are happy to be rid of the land and the people. Isreal also tried several times to sign peace accords and even agreed to a palistinian state. It was rejected after giving them 95% of what they wanted. This is about Iran and nothing else.
06-02-2010, 01:24 PM
#17
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,383
I'm an American citizen, not an Israeli citizen. I don't see that supporting Israel, right or wrong, ought to be our motto. It seems to me that rather than the US gaining much from our association with Israel, in fact the relationship is much more one-sided in the opposite sense
What Alsatian said.
We in the US have gained nothing by our unqualified support for Israel. Our unqualified support for Israel is the reason that the WTC was attacked-twice. Hezbollah and numerous other US hating organizations came into being because of US support for Israel.
It is significant that many Israeli citizens see that their government is wrong and are willing to openly criticize that government.
Last edited by falcon; 06-02-2010 at 01:50 PM.
06-02-2010, 03:18 PM
#18
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 37,814
Supporting a free democracy is now wrong in America. We are screwed! Falcon, you are right we were attacked on 9/11 however not for our support for Israel but the fact we are THE pillar for the free world. I now see they have put a deep cut into that pillar and we might as well kiss our asses good by. They are winning this battle.
06-03-2010, 04:21 AM
#20
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,383
Falcon, you are right we were attacked on 9/11 however not for our support for Israel but the fact we are THE pillar for the free world.
This lie was invented shortly after 911. Arabs in particular, and Muslims in general, are angry at the US for what they see as a two faced approach to middle east peace by the US. On the one hand the US claims to be an impartial peace broker. At the same time the US goes out of its way to support Isreal.
