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ethnic classes....

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ethnic classes....

Old 05-14-2010, 07:42 AM
  #41  
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If you want to talk about wasted taxpayer dollars in our public schools, look at the time, attention, emphasis, and dollars wasted on sports...mostly in the name of "teaching teamwork."

At there is a teacher involved in the course being righteously examined. I would agree that reading comprehension would be a better choice for emphasis.

Last edited by vc1111; 05-14-2010 at 07:44 AM.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:04 AM
  #42  
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Here is a recent schedule of the regular courses offered at a High School and Middle School. If everyone was allowed to get rid of the class(es) that they think are unnecessary crap, then the pickings would end up pretty slim.
Attached Thumbnails ethnic classes....-thunder-20ridge-20high-20school-20class-20schedule-202009.jpg  
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:38 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by vc1111 View Post
If you want to talk about wasted taxpayer dollars in our public schools, look at the time, attention, emphasis, and dollars wasted on sports...mostly in the name of "teaching teamwork."

funny, i am a strong proponent of middle school and high school sports, but the machinery that has grown up around it is stupifying. my kids go to parochial school. my oldest son's H.S. football coach has two paid part-time assistants, and a handful of volunteers. the local public schools have staffs easily north of a dozen, with what i would term excessive budgets.

one local district is facing a severe budget crisis this year. a month ago, the superintendent suggested cutting 28 full and part-time teaching positons, and some of the gifted programs. about 2 dozen parents showed up to object. at the last meeting, she suggested eliminating middle school sports, and cutting the high school sports budget by 1/3. the mob almost ran her out of town on a rail.

we get the government we deserve.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:45 AM
  #44  
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Yep, and the thought of having that type of mob dictate curriculum development and course offerings is always good for a laugh.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:29 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Lanse couche couche View Post
Berg,

That relativistic concept works great in abstract anthropolgical theory, and yes, we should strive to understand the context in which Columbus operated. But as an anthropologist you are also pretty much required to explore all of the perspectives on an issue or person, including those of the group whose narratives are the most critical. Of course, it is somewhat of a slippery slope to use the "product of his times" perspective to offer blanket apologies for everything bad that has been committed by humans thru history. Unless of course, you hedge your bets by shutting out the perspectives of the people to who the bad things were done. And that's not good scholarship.
Fact is, the world is full of people to whom bad things have happened. Generally speaking, historically, it's the victors who write the history, not the vanquished. As far as the 15th century was concerned, slavery was a fact of life, Colombus was Catholic and as such it was his duty to assist the Church in forced conversion of the 'savage natives'. From a 21st century perspective, that's an abomination. In the 15th century, it was an astounding achievement which led to the colonization of the 'new world' by the European powers. The 'product of his times' argument always applies. Even now, you are slipping on that slope by putting negative spin on the history of Colombus based on 21st century values. Not anthropological at all. I submit it is a valid method, as it compares and contrasts BUT DOES NOT JUDGE. Most of the atrocities in this world were done because a judgement was made one way or the other and the decision was that one could not live with the other. As far as 'striving to see all perspectives' on an issue, that's false. You are stressing SOCIOLOGICAL analysis rather than anthropological observation. Judgements. In the 15th century, Colombus did pretty much was he was required to do. In the 21st century, you feel you are required to judge 600 year old behavior on the standards of today. Neither scholastic nor intelligent. The anthro perspective is the only one...it is objective and sticks to the 'what was' or 'what is' and not 'ooh I don't like what happened there ....' or "my God what savages those people were...' or other such judgements. It was just DIFFERENT. Did Colombus' discovery result in the genocide of thousands and thousands of indigenous American peoples ? Absolutely. Like I said...they were a product of the times and to condemn Colombus for his actions is akin to condemning a dog for choosing the living room carpet to take a dump on..far as he's concerned, it was a GREAT place and he was just bein' a dog.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:44 AM
  #46  
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Uh, Berg, as someone with a Ph.D. in cultural anthropology and over 20 years as a teacher and researcher, and who was involved in an anthropology department forum that dealt specifically with contemporary (this was in 1992) Native American perspectives on Christopher Columbus i think that I can safetly say that exploring Native American perspectives on this topic falls well within the anthropological realm, unless i am misunderstanding your argument. Anthropologists are not supposed to judge, but they by all means document the ways that people in other places and times made judgements and their motivations for making such judgements.

Yes, we all know that bad things happen and that the victor gets to write the official history of things. But it is intellecutally dishonest to suggest that those on the losing end are not entitled to a critical perspective. Thats kind of like trying to argue that the French have no right to be critical of Hitler and the German occupation because they were also warlike but were defeated (with a formal surrender) by the Germans thru superior military technology and strategy. Likewise, we were essentially defeated by the North Vietnamese/Viet Cong, so does that mean that it is off limits to explore the narratives of American POW's or ethnic minorities in Vietnam that were subsequently persecuted by the victors?

Think that after a couple whippings with a newspaper, even a dog picks up on the fact that such an action is wrong.

Addendum: If you haven't read it, take a look at Jared Diamond's book: Guns, Germs, and Steel. He's not an anthropologist, but then again some of the best work on obvious negative impacts of European conquest come from geographers and historians. He does a good job of separating out causes for such phenomenon without promoting the causes as justifications.

Last edited by Lanse couche couche; 05-14-2010 at 09:59 AM.
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Old 05-14-2010, 11:32 AM
  #47  
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I'm thinking we're talking the same language, just a different dialect.

Originally Posted by Lanse couche couche View Post
Uh, Berg, as someone with a Ph.D. in cultural anthropology and over 20 years as a teacher and researcher, and who was involved in an anthropology department forum that dealt specifically with contemporary (this was in 1992) Native American perspectives on Christopher Columbus i think that I can safetly say that exploring Native American perspectives on this topic falls well within the anthropological realm, unless i am misunderstanding your argument. Anthropologists are not supposed to judge, but they by all means document the ways that people in other places and times made judgements and their motivations for making such judgements.

AGREED.

Yes, we all know that bad things happen and that the victor gets to write the official history of things. But it is intellecutally dishonest to suggest that those on the losing end are not entitled to a critical perspective. Thats kind of like trying to argue that the French have no right to be critical of Hitler and the German occupation because they were also warlike but were defeated (with a formal surrender) by the Germans thru superior military technology and strategy. Likewise, we were essentially defeated by the North Vietnamese/Viet Cong, so does that mean that it is off limits to explore the narratives of American POW's or ethnic minorities in Vietnam that were subsequently persecuted by the victors?
and here's where we diverge a bit, or maybe, the perspective is different. The French, as part of their history, can lay all kinds of damnation on Hitler. The Germans, can blame the rest of Europe for their wartime motivations. But I see neither the French or the Germans denigrating THEIR OWN historical background and taking guilt on the actions of their forebears. And the references to Viet Nam, POW's, the Hmong (that's an assumption on my part) and other minorities in SE Asia are all valid. And those cultures can be studied for what they are. But it looks like WE are the only country that tells our kids that 'we lost the vietnam war, AND we were babykillers , rapists, and mass murderers'. THAT'S my point...I guess you can say I object to the revisionist tendency of certain individuals ostensibly engaged in the educational field, to interpret history as other than what it was...that we are evil and should pay for our 'sins'. It's hogwash.

Think that after a couple whippings with a newspaper, even a dog picks up on the fact that such an action is wrong.
but Colombus got no whippings with the paper...he returned to Europe as a discoverer, only that he did not discover what he THOUGHT he discovered.

Addendum: If you haven't read it, take a look at Jared Diamond's book: Guns, Germs, and Steel. He's not an anthropologist, but then again some of the best work on obvious negative impacts of European conquest come from geographers and historians. He does a good job of separating out causes for such phenomenon without promoting the causes as justifications.
I will in fact seek out this book. At this juncture I seek objectivity and if I see judgement and subjectivity it just kind'a pisses me off....
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Old 05-14-2010, 01:35 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by boysda View Post
I guess I am at a loss to understand how recognition of the specific contributions of any ethnic group, within the context of a broader and balanced lesson plan, could be perceived as demeaning.
As I said, I speak only for myself. But when I am in a class, I am not a member of an "ethnic group" and do not wish to be regarded as such. I do not want to have the actions of other members of my "ethnic group" pointed out so as to lend some sort of boost to my self-esteem. If I am in an American History class, I want to learn the same American History that everyone else is learning.

I am not "Japanese-American." I am an American, conceived in California and born in Michigan. I have had certain achievements in my life and I want to be measured by those achievements not by the accomplishments of other members of my "ethnic group." Yes it is demeaning, humiliating, and condescending that some teacher would feel it necessary to list the achievements of members of my "ethnic group" in order to give me a feeling of self-worth.
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Old 05-14-2010, 02:04 PM
  #49  
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at the last meeting, she suggested eliminating middle school sports, and cutting the high school sports budget by 1/3. the mob almost ran her out of town on a rail.
Good to see that we still have our priorities straight. The exact same thing happened several times over the years in our communities. Threaten to eliminate sports and cheer leading and you can get tax levies past and move mountains. Another one was busing. Tell them you'll make Mom or Dad get them to school and they'll run to the polls to vote 'yes' for a tax increase or renewal.

The tactic is time-tested and proven.
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Old 05-15-2010, 02:17 AM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by daddyslittlegirl View Post
As I said, I speak only for myself. But when I am in a class, I am not a member of an "ethnic group" and do not wish to be regarded as such. I do not want to have the actions of other members of my "ethnic group" pointed out so as to lend some sort of boost to my self-esteem. If I am in an American History class, I want to learn the same American History that everyone else is learning.

I am not "Japanese-American." I am an American, conceived in California and born in Michigan. I have had certain achievements in my life and I want to be measured by those achievements not by the accomplishments of other members of my "ethnic group." Yes it is demeaning, humiliating, and condescending that some teacher would feel it necessary to list the achievements of members of my "ethnic group" in order to give me a feeling of self-worth.
BRAVO ! The problem we have is that too many people are hyphenated Americans, many of whom are removed from their 'ancestral lands' for generations and really don't have any real connection with 'their' culture. Libtards think you should feel 'less' naturally, because they are racists, homophobes and generally low and condescending. This is why all the special attention being paid to singling out certain people and teaching class with a 'theme' or an 'emphasis' that is just not American History. It's a shame...
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