Go Back  HuntingNet.com Forums > Non Hunting > Politics
Crime Statistics Do not support Arizona Law >

Crime Statistics Do not support Arizona Law

Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

Crime Statistics Do not support Arizona Law

Old 05-04-2010, 04:47 AM
  #31  
Dominant Buck
 
burniegoeasily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
Default

Originally Posted by vc1111 View Post
T

We need a crackdown on these people too...ASAP.
Believe me, some tried. It is easier to get the IRS out than the INS.
burniegoeasily is offline  
Old 05-04-2010, 07:05 AM
  #32  
Giant Nontypical
 
bergall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,626
Default

Originally Posted by burniegoeasily View Post
Believe me, some tried. It is easier to get the IRS out than the INS.
Well, isn't the INS being dissuaded from doing their jobs by the Komrade in Chief ? They're not supposed to deport anybody I guess....but it's surprising that a president who goes overseas and talks down this country to foreigners is reluctant to prosecute his own countrymen for keeping what amounts to slaves. Seems like Rat #1 is completely and utterly disingenuous.
bergall is offline  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:08 AM
  #33  
Boone & Crockett
 
Lanse couche couche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
Default

Dunno why critics of the law continue to ignore the fact that the law states that inquiry about citizenship can only within the context of a lawful contact such as a stop for speeding, an arrest for shoplifting etc. So people will not be stopped simply to ask to see their "papers," something has to occur to initiate the stop beforehand.
Lanse couche couche is offline  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:42 AM
  #34  
Boone & Crockett
 
ipscshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: The Republic of Texas
Posts: 11,750
Default

Originally Posted by Lanse couche couche View Post
Dunno why critics of the law continue to ignore the fact that the law states that inquiry about citizenship can only within the context of a lawful contact such as a stop for speeding, an arrest for shoplifting etc. So people will not be stopped simply to ask to see their "papers," something has to occur to initiate the stop beforehand.
Interestingly, I carry my "papers" with me whenever I drive. It's called a driver's license (the law provides that a valid driver's license constitutes appropriate ID). I've been asked for my "papers" on several occasions in my 35 years of driving. Never once thought I'd been profiled or had my rights trampled by Nazis...

"Legal" immigrants are required by law to have their "papers" (i.e green card) with them at all times, ready to produce on demand.

Critics of this law = MORONS.
ipscshooter is offline  
Old 05-04-2010, 08:48 AM
  #35  
Boone & Crockett
 
Lanse couche couche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
Default

Interesting story, but years back a friend of mine was out for an evening walk. Some cops pulled up and asked him for I.D. He said he didnt have any with him. They asked him why and he said because this is the United States and he doesnt need papers to talk an evening stroll, and that unless they had a legitimate reason for detaining him the conversation was over, and then he walked off and left them sitting there. I think that is the scenario that some critics are imagining, but i believe that the law specifically forbids random stops like that.
Lanse couche couche is offline  
Old 05-04-2010, 03:18 PM
  #36  
Giant Nontypical
 
bergall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,626
Default

Originally Posted by Lanse couche couche View Post
Interesting story, but years back a friend of mine was out for an evening walk. Some cops pulled up and asked him for I.D. He said he didnt have any with him. They asked him why and he said because this is the United States and he doesnt need papers to talk an evening stroll, and that unless they had a legitimate reason for detaining him the conversation was over, and then he walked off and left them sitting there. I think that is the scenario that some critics are imagining, but i believe that the law specifically forbids random stops like that.
I find myself in 100% agreement with you...just stopping a citizen without just cause and demanding identification amounts to harassment, I believe, which is criminally actionable as a complaint.
I could be wrong...but I carry my papers too because if asked for them by some 'official government representative' and I cannot produce them, they have the ability to detain a person until they can produce identification. Now, one can choose to fight it out in court, but I'd rather avoid the whole scenario and hand over my driver's license, that I normally carry all the time, 24x7x365.
And you are also correct in asserting the demand for ID is not a 'primary' reason for detaining someone...they need to be stopped for something else and their ability to produce ID is then escalated (just as it is for everybody) if they cannot produce it. Part of that escalation, in the state of Arizona, is a check on the immigration status of the detainee. The law is being misrepresented by the anarchists and the 'undocumented immigrants' (Illegal Aliens) as well at the 'open borders' advocates in mass media.
bergall is offline  
Old 05-05-2010, 06:28 AM
  #37  
Boone & Crockett
 
Lanse couche couche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 10,277
Default

I usually have my wallet with me except when i am out taking a long walk. If I am ever stopped and questioned and there appears to be a reasonable reason for asking for I.D., I will likely be more than happy to cooperate if they want to drive me back to my place to get my wallet. However, I'm not gonna put up with getting ragged on for not having I.D. on me.

I also think that if a police officer makes a big issue out of someone not having I.D., they may later need to demonstrate some sort of reason for stopping the person and requesting I.D. or they may be the one in hot water. Could be wrong though.

Would be nice to hear some insights into this from past or present LEO's.
Lanse couche couche is offline  
Old 05-05-2010, 06:58 AM
  #38  
Giant Nontypical
 
bergall's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 7,626
Default

Originally Posted by Lanse couche couche View Post
I usually have my wallet with me except when i am out taking a long walk. If I am ever stopped and questioned and there appears to be a reasonable reason for asking for I.D., I will likely be more than happy to cooperate if they want to drive me back to my place to get my wallet. However, I'm not gonna put up with getting ragged on for not having I.D. on me.

I also think that if a police officer makes a big issue out of someone not having I.D., they may later need to demonstrate some sort of reason for stopping the person and requesting I.D. or they may be the one in hot water. Could be wrong though.

Would be nice to hear some insights into this from past or present LEO's.

Thats a good idea....any LEO's out there can shed some light on this
situation ? Basically, we're looking to see what legal requirements allow the police to stop someone, and the ramifications of a demand for identification. Anyone ?
bergall is offline  
Old 05-05-2010, 07:08 AM
  #39  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,330
Default

Originally Posted by H80Hunter View Post
Also imagine if you're a LEGAL Mexican immigrant living in Arizona. For that matter, try to imagine a different scenario: If Obama passed a law saying ANYONE (white, black, mexican, etc.) could be stopped and forced to prove their citizenship, or that they paid their taxes, or anything. You would all have an absolute stroke, yet this is fine? Not merely fine, but applauded?
I believe it has been a federal law for decades that immigrants are supposed to carry their papers with them all the time and are subject to being asked to show these same papers at any time. So, far from a new scenario, it has long been the law imposed o immigrants as a condition for being in this country legally that they must carry their papers and present them when requested. What's the big deal?

By the way, could Obama show papers proving his citizenship if he was pulled over in Arizona? Just jokin'!!!
Alsatian is offline  
Old 05-05-2010, 07:24 AM
  #40  
Dominant Buck
 
burniegoeasily's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
Default

Heck, ive been stopped without my drivers license. All I did was provide my drivers license number and social security number. No problem.
burniegoeasily is offline  

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.