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Shirking Military service

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Shirking Military service

Old 10-26-2009, 12:55 PM
  #51  
F3d
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Well, until bho, I don't recall a POTUS being appointed CiC of banking, business, etc.
? I don't know what you're trying to point out.

McCain said he didn't know anything about economics. Why pick them to solve the economic crisis? Shouldn't they all have an economics background?

I agree--that is what the military is great at doing--bringing out the leadership skills in an individual.
Enlistment won't test your leadership skills.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos249.htm

January 2007

Grade Rank and title Army Navy Air Force Marine Corps Total Employment Commissioned officers:




General Admiral General General 40 O-10
Lieutenant General Vice Admiral Lieutenant General Lieutenant General 136 O-9
Major General Rear Admiral (U) Major General Major General 285 O-8
Brigadier General Rear Admiral (L) Brigadier General Brigadier General 449 O-7
Colonel Captain Colonel Colonel 11,345 O-6
Lieutenant Colonel Commander Lieutenant Colonel Lieutenant Colonel 28,566 O-5
Major Lieutenant Commander Major Major 44,908 O-4
Captain Lieutenant Captain Captain 70,131 O-3
1st Lieutenant Lieutenant (JG) 1st Lieutenant 1st Lieutenant 26,894 O-2
2nd Lieutenant Ensign 2nd Lieutenant 2nd Lieutenant 23,331 O-1

As you can see, most don't even get close to being at the top. They just do ROTC, and get out after 4 years. Or do you really want to limit it to a select few?
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:15 PM
  #52  
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Was sitting in a deer stand last evening thinking of my need to get right with God. At age 70 i've got to do it pretty quick too.
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Old 10-26-2009, 04:33 PM
  #53  
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The Military is a choice for some and the only viable option for others. I was lucky enough to have it to be a choice, while completing my BS in Aviation Science I chose to join the Marine Corps to serve my country. Several men in my unit came from backgrounds in which this was their only choice to make it out of their particular situation and it basicly saved their lives and made them better men. However the military is not for everyone, I understand that and do not in anyway believe that anyone that chooses education over service is a coward, or any less American than I. That said those who have no job, not going to school, sitting on their ass sucking off the welfare system and the taxpayers, and enjoying the freedom that I help provide, i feel should be signed up, its a guarenteed job for as long as you want, with great benefits and they will pay for school when you get out. SEMPER FI OORAH
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Old 10-26-2009, 07:59 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by F3d View Post
As you can see, most don't even get close to being at the top. They just do ROTC, and get out after 4 years. Or do you really want to limit it to a select few?
Actually, many are serving now beyond four years, and most of those end up with at least two, sometimes three combat tours, making decisions and inspiring their subordinates to do things that may result in their deaths. Above that, they'll also have spent (considering ROTC and service academies) at least four years of basic, formative doctrinal leadership training and intensive mentoring, followed by four to six more months of specialized training, and very likely another six months of more advance leadership and staff training.

Contrast that with a law school graduate. How much leadership experience and training do they receive in that same period? How about an MBA?

Again, I don't insist that military service should be a requirement to be elected to office, but I won't accept either that it be marginalized. What military leadership teaches you above all else is making decisions under pressure - decisions that may cost lives if in error. You don't need to reach "the top" to make those kinds of decisions. Quite the contrary, you become more detached from their first-order effects the higher you go.

Effective leaders don't need to know everything there is about a given subject - PROVIDED they know how to LEAD a staff of people who do, provide them guidance, and MAKE DECISIONS.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:19 PM
  #55  
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Actually, many are serving now beyond four years, and most of those end up with at least two, sometimes three combat tours, making decisions and inspiring their subordinates to do things that may result in their deaths. Above that, they'll also have spent (considering ROTC and service academies) at least four years of basic, formative doctrinal leadership training and intensive mentoring, followed by four to six more months of specialized training, and very likely another six months of more advance leadership and staff training.
Excellent post. My Capt. neighbor just left on his fifth combat tour.
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Old 10-26-2009, 08:30 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by falcon View Post
Was sitting in a deer stand last evening thinking of my need to get right with God. At age 70 i've got to do it pretty quick too.
He's always listening. He talked to me in a big way Friday. Hard to even explain.
 
Old 10-26-2009, 08:32 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by F3d View Post
? I don't know what you're trying to point out.

McCain said he didn't know anything about economics. Why pick them to solve the economic crisis? Shouldn't they all have an economics background?

Enlistment won't test your leadership skills.

http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos249.htm

January 2007

Grade Rank and title Army Navy Air Force Marine Corps Total Employment Commissioned officers:




General Admiral General General 40 O-10
Lieutenant General Vice Admiral Lieutenant General Lieutenant General 136 O-9
Major General Rear Admiral (U) Major General Major General 285 O-8
Brigadier General Rear Admiral (L) Brigadier General Brigadier General 449 O-7
Colonel Captain Colonel Colonel 11,345 O-6
Lieutenant Colonel Commander Lieutenant Colonel Lieutenant Colonel 28,566 O-5
Major Lieutenant Commander Major Major 44,908 O-4
Captain Lieutenant Captain Captain 70,131 O-3
1st Lieutenant Lieutenant (JG) 1st Lieutenant 1st Lieutenant 26,894 O-2
2nd Lieutenant Ensign 2nd Lieutenant 2nd Lieutenant 23,331 O-1

As you can see, most don't even get close to being at the top. They just do ROTC, and get out after 4 years. Or do you really want to limit it to a select few?
Holy cow, I didn't know there was so many Colonels and Generals. I thought being a Colonel was a big deal. I see them all the time in the area. And thought it interesting. But with 11,000 of em, no wonder I see em around the Baltimore/DC intelligence area.
 
Old 10-26-2009, 08:43 PM
  #58  
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In MY opinion, after serving 19 years so far....an ALL Vol. force means they are more committed to what their duties are. Over here in S. Korea, the government forces males to serve 20-24 months depending on career field, females can serve but are not forced to. I work with the goof balls and a FORCED to serve airman/soldier/riot policeman (choices they have) and they are not the same high caliber conscripts that VOL. to serve shoulder to shoulder with US 8th Army soldiers, period.
In fact, to give you all some insight---last night while i was jogging the perimeter of the flight line. I was watching 4 black hawks on approach...at the same time 3 ROKAF boys manning the scud guns had their rifles trained on the choppers...WTF?? When I locked eyes with them..they dropped their weapons back to ready position and walked back to their post....I would imagine the same kind of retarded behavior would occur on ALL levels IN ALL branches of US MIL if we forced folks to serve. Drafting during a major crisis is one thing, forcing enlistment...bad choice.

Last edited by djdkman; 10-26-2009 at 08:46 PM. Reason: I cant spell very gud
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Old 10-26-2009, 10:13 PM
  #59  
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10 years ago I tried to join the Marines and wasn't allowed due to the fact I had a g.e.d.. THere have been many times that I have felt like I let alot of people down because of this. But when I think about it I shouldn't feel that way because I tried to serve. If you draft people into the armed forces you will be getting all of them. I wanted to go and couldn't at the time there are loads of people who would run like the wind. That is not the type of people I want to have defending my freedom. That was one time that I was as depressed as I could be. I felt like I wasn't good enough to serve my country. But forcing someone could be a major screw up.
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Old 10-27-2009, 09:05 AM
  #60  
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I think if we are going to make a particular life experience a requirement to be POTUS rather than military service we should require that they have at least a four year (BA,BS) college degree from an accredited university or college. Graduating from college requires above average intelligence, determination, self-discipline, goal orientation and a strong work ethic. College graduates have demonstrated an ability to acquire, understand and utilize large amounts of new information that will generally cover a wide range of topics.

I realize that only about one in four American adults are college graduates so that this criteria will exclude most of the population for eligibility to be POTUS but I think military service only would probably exclude an even larger percentage of the population and a college degree would probably be more relevant to most of what the President does than four years spent as an enlisted man.
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