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Opinion from veterans

Old 11-07-2008, 10:51 AM
  #51  
Nontypical Buck
 
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i would be more sympathetic to the concerns raised about homosexuals serving in the military, if they weren't the same objections i heard or read about integrating women and african americans in the armed forces.

As LBR said, albeit in making a different point, so long as they can serve and stay within the confines of the UCMJ, i got no issue with it.
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Old 11-07-2008, 10:56 AM
  #52  
LBR
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That's not the same thing. Not even close.
It's not the same thing, but not even close? You arewrong--either one issexual devience. If anything, an grown woman hitting on my son would be the most natural of the three.

I would take that a step further. I believe serving honorably in the military or some equivalent of public service should be a requirement of voting.
I don't agree, but it would be tempting--we wouldn't have had Clinton or BHO in the White House if that were the case. I'd be all for one having to be a taxpayer, or at least been a taxpayer for a certain amount of time, to be eligible to vote. That's neither here nor there though.

Chad
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:13 AM
  #53  
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ORIGINAL: LBR

I would take that a step further. I believe serving honorably in the military or some equivalent of public service should be a requirement of voting.
I don't agree, but it would be tempting--we wouldn't have had Clinton or BHO in the White House if that were the case.
Chad
neither would we have had adams, nor wilson, nor FDR.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:28 AM
  #54  
 
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Served in the United States Marine Corps. 2004-2008. Sgt/E5. Stationed in Japan, korea, and Iraq.Im not even sure where to begin. First of all my stance is gays should NOT be allowed in the military. From what i can recall from what i read on this; the only good aruement that i heard from those who think gays should be allowed was that if they want to serve their country and put their lives on the line why not allow them in. Thats a very good point. But the problem you have with that is just what you see here in this thread. Mattersof opinions.It will cause more problems in the military than it will benefit it. There already is enough problems with haveing women and men in the military. Sexual harrasment, rapes, adultry, the list goes on and on. You allow gays inthen you increase the number of cases that i just listed. Even with just straight men for example you still have issues. Like racism. Which leads to hate crimes. it still happens in the world today so dont think that it dont happen in the military. Add gays into the mix; hate crimes rise. This is not a perfect world and not everybody can get along with everyone. And that is a profession where people need to have their head in the game. Have their minds on the task at hand because it is a matter of life and death. And its not even justwhen they are in a combat environment. its when they are back here in the states and they are in training. Training is to help you prepare for combat. to help you do your jobs. if you cant pay attention during training because some homosexual has a tendacy to look your direction in the middle of your training; you are no longer paying attention to what is being said and you are now thinking what the hell is he looking at. You could miss some valuable information. then you get into living quarters which seems to be the most brought up issue here. Yes we do live in very tight quarters. You live, sleep, eat, shower, and sh** together. Men and women in the military have seperate living quarters for obvious reasons. Now how in the world do you go about having living quaters for homosexuals? You cant have gays living with the same sex for simple reasons as sexual harrasment cases. Sexual harrasment is any unwanted gestures. Whether it be a touch, somethining said, or a look. You have one miss understanded and you could have a sexual harrassment case. Dont need that. You cant have gay men living with straight women cause then you are just going to have men saying they are gay so they can live with the women. Vis versa with gay women living with straight men. And then you cant have gay men living with other gay men because that would be like have straight men living with straight women. The military doesnt condon having sexual intercourse in the living quarters. It doesnt matter whether they are married or not. Work together or not. One simple reason is sexually transmitted diseases. Yes it still happens, every rule gets broken one way or the other by one person or an other. So what do you do for living quarters for homosexuals? Now say you had a good solution for that question. I can almost bet with 100% confidence that its going to cost money. So the military needs more money to accomadate these homosexuals. where does the military get the money to pay for anything whether it be weapons, tranportation, living quarters, etc? From taxes right? So give me some reasons why it would be beneficial to allow gays to be in the military or be open in the military. Because like its been said already there are definitly homos in the military. So those of you that think they should be allowed in the militaryi challenge you to find good reason that the military should change their policies on homosexualality.
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:53 AM
  #55  
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ORIGINAL: LBR

I would take that a step further. I believe serving honorably in the military or some equivalent of public service should be a requirement of voting.
I don't agree, but it would be tempting--we wouldn't have had Clinton or BHO in the White House if that were the case. I'd be all for one having to be a taxpayer, or at least been a taxpayer for a certain amount of time, to be eligible to vote. That's neither here nor there though.

Chad
I agree, Chad. Tax PAYER. If you pay income taxes into the system, you get to vote. I'm pretty sure the government maintains a pretty detailed list of who's eating the government cheese, and who's paying for the cheese...
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Old 11-07-2008, 11:56 AM
  #56  
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A poll tax is unconstitutional. I bet any other restriction would be found as such.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:13 PM
  #57  
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One good reason for a policy change could be a shortage of personnel. My understanding is that there were multiple instances of gays being "outed" in recent years, but officers turned a blind eye to it because they could not afford to lose those people. Please note, I am not arguing either for or against, just offering a situation when the military seems willing tobe a bit "flexible" in its policy toward gays.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:21 PM
  #58  
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ORIGINAL: peregordusmc

Even with just straight men for example you still have issues. Like racism. Which leads to hate crimes.
so, perhaps we should only allow caucasians to serve?
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:46 PM
  #59  
LBR
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so, perhaps we should only allow caucasians to serve?
Do you think only caucasians are capable of hate crimes? Did you ever serve boysda? Just what is a hate crime anyway? If a whiteguy murders a white guy, that's somehow more acceptable/less deserving of punishment than if a white guymurders a black guy? Or if a straight guy murders a straight guy, that's not as bad as a straight guy murderinga gay guy? If the black guy or the gay is the murderer, and the victim is white/straight, is it still a "hate crime"?

"Hate crime" legislation is one of the most stupid, biased, and racial pieces of crap to ever be born of pollitical correctness. Murder is murder. Dead is dead.

peregordusmc covered a lot, but just the tip of the iceberg. Most who have served in the military understand this--there's not even a reasonable solution on how to bunk gays. They would REQUIRE special services, treatment, etc. More than likely that's why Clinton stopped with "Don't ask, don't tell, don't persue"--someone told him how anything more would be opening up a can of worms that would bankrupt the military. I don't think he much cared about how he destroyed morale.

If you haven't served, then you can't understand.

Chad
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Old 11-07-2008, 01:00 PM
  #60  
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Default RE: Opinion from veterans

ORIGINAL: LBR

That's not the same thing. Not even close.
It's not the same thing, but not even close? You arewrong--either one issexual devience. If anything, an grown woman hitting on my son would be the most natural of the three.
No, children are not able to consent to sexual behavior. It is wrong for an adult of either sex toapproach them for that purpose. That is very different from what two consenting adults do in private. I'm sure some would consider oral sex to be deviant. There used to be laws against it, and in some places there may still be.My wife and Ioften enjoy that as part of our healthy monogamous relationship. I still think the problem is not what two consenting adults do in private. The problem is how you feel about it and that is beyond their control.

ETA: I just realized that all of the problems you mentioned are not connected with what they do in private. You have a problem with how they behave in public. This includes the community shower and sleeping areas. I agree that they should be required to maintain their military bearing in these areas, just as everyone else should. All the things you mentioned would be prohibited by existing laws and regulations against harrassment, rape, etc. that apply to everyone.
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