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bigbulls 11-07-2008 09:31 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
A question for the straight men and womenhere that are open arms to gays in the military. When you make advances toward an attractiveperson of the opposite sexandthat persondeclines you do you still look atthat persons body when you are around them in a sexual manner? IE: checking out her butt as she walks away, etc... etc...Of course you do.

Do you think that straight military men and women need tohave the distractionthat other gay men and women are "checking them out" every time they stand a watch, after they have been on deployment for months, in the shower together, getting undressed for bed, etc... etc...

Do you think that the military should be100% integrated with regards to men and women? Do you think that horny men and women that have been in the desert for months or out to sea for monthsshould be allowed to sleep, shower, etc... together all in the same living quarters?

That is exactly the same as forcing gay men and womento sleep and shower with straight men and women.

Are you so blind that you can't see how huge of a distraction this would be?

mudhead1s wife 11-07-2008 09:33 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
I have not served, however, a lotof the men in my family did.
So I think I can understand where you guys are coming from, and would just like to put this out there.

I don't know anything about being toconfined areas like that, and can only imagine it is like being in the school locker room multiplied about 1,000 X's. Right now homosexuals are not allowed in the military, which means the ones that are aren't open that they are until they slip, which we all know happens. Now most of these guys arenot going to be the flaming fairy types, as they have a tendency to be the more submissive in a relationship thus taking more of the soft female role. These to me would seem to be less of a threat but a very high nuisance. You see the minute the military were to say it was okay for them to serve, it would be ok for them to openly talk about men in a sexual capacity, thus creating a barrier with trust. These men are put in high stress situations and the last thing they need is to worry about whether Joe is mentally picturing them in his mind. It is a distraction that they cannot afford.
Do homosexuals serve? Yes, but by the military saying they do not allow homosexuals they are taking away a distraction that could impair a majority of the servicemen.

When I was 15 I was babysitting for my older brothers friend so they could go out. While I was babysitting, one of Carrie's friends showed up who happened to be a lesbian (butch) she hit on me in front of the girls, they were 6 and 2. Had me backed into a corner and I had to finally tell her if she didn't leave I would have to call the cops on her. This was not the first time she hit on me, so she knew she was crossing the line. The things that she said to me were the same things that would disgust meeven if she were a man. Nobody should be treated in that manner ever, ecspecially when they are in stressful situations and their lives depend on them having full concentration on their duties and tasks.

Does that mean I am not secure with my sexuality? No. I am a female who happens to be attracted to males. My husband to be specific. To be tolerant does not mean that I should have to tolerate unwanted sexual advances from a homosexual or anyone for that matter. So do they expect special treatment? Yesfrom what I have seen they do.

LBR 11-07-2008 09:43 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

I can only say that prejudice andhateare symptoms of fear, the kind of fear that comes from ignorance. Don't feel threatened if a gay man makes a pass at you. Just treat him like an ugly woman and politely decline. There's no need to round up alynch mobor ruin his career.
So the obvious minority should be catered to despite the negative effect on the majority?

Personally, I wouldn't feel threatened--more like disgusted. The same as I'd feel towards a grown man or woman making a pass at my 13 year old son. No reason to ruin their career either, right?

Just another reason I believe that a requirement to be POTUS should include serving honorably in the military. A Commander in Chief can't be as effective if they don't have a clue about what service means.

Chad

etothepii 11-07-2008 09:48 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

I can only say that prejudice andhateare symptoms of fear
But disagreement is not.

wahoohunter 11-07-2008 09:53 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: LBR



Personally, I wouldn't feel threatened--more like disgusted.
So, say your hubris and prejudices disgust me, does that mean I should just write you off regardless of whether or not I truly know you as a person?


A question for the straight men and womenhere that are open arms to gays in the military. When you make advances toward an attractiveperson of the opposite sexandthat persondeclines you do you still look atthat persons body when you are around them in a sexual manner? IE: checking out her butt as she walks away, etc... etc...Of course you do.
haha, how american[&:]

LBR 11-07-2008 10:06 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

Fair enough and I'll leave it alone after this......
Couldn't keep your word for 15 minutes......how suprising.


So, say your hubris and prejudices disgust me, does that mean I should just write you off regardless of whether or not I truly know you as a person?
What does that have to do with the price of rice in China? I could really care less if my personal values and morals disgust you--as far as I'm concerned that's your problem.

We're talking about the military. Soldiers are different from civilians. The military's job isn't making sure soldiers feel all warm and fuzzy. I served with folks from all over, with all sorts of different beliefs and ideals--but if that didn't jive with the UCMJ, they were out--period. The military isn't the place for pollitical correctness.

Chad

Vabowman 11-07-2008 10:08 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
I think people need to have self control.

bigbulls 11-07-2008 10:11 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

haha, how american
What in the hell does this mean?

Do you actually have anything worth while to add to this? I doubt it.

Answer the question.

RenaissanceBiker 11-07-2008 11:16 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: LBR


I can only say that prejudice andhateare symptoms of fear, the kind of fear that comes from ignorance. Don't feel threatened if a gay man makes a pass at you. Just treat him like an ugly woman and politely decline. There's no need to round up alynch mobor ruin his career.
So the obvious minority should be catered to despite the negative effect on the majority?
No, they should be treated no different than anyone else.


ORIGINAL: LBR
Personally, I wouldn't feel threatened--more like disgusted. The same as I'd feel towards a grown man or woman making a pass at my 13 year old son. No reason to ruin their career either, right?
That's not the same thing. Not even close.


ORIGINAL: LBR
Just another reason I believe that a requirement to be POTUS should include serving honorably in the military. A Commander in Chief can't be as effective if they don't have a clue about what service means.

Chad
I would take that a step further. I believe serving honorably in the military or some equivalent of public service should be a requirement of voting.

RenaissanceBiker 11-07-2008 11:37 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: bigbulls
Do you think that straight military men and women need tohave the distractionthat other gay men and women are "checking them out" every time they stand a watch, after they have been on deployment for months, in the shower together, getting undressed for bed, etc... etc...
I don't know why that has to be a distraction? People check out other people all the time, and not just sexually. They check out your clothes, the car you drive, the house you live in, etc. It seems to me the problem is not that someone is being checked out, but how they feel about being checked out. The checker has very little control over that.


ORIGINAL: bigbulls
Do you think that the military should be100% integrated with regards to men and women? Do you think that horny men and women that have been in the desert for months or out to sea for monthsshould be allowed to sleep, shower, etc... together all in the same living quarters?

That is exactly the same as forcing gay men and womento sleep and shower with straight men and women.

Are you so blind that you can't see how huge of a distraction this would be?
People who don't live in those conditions find ways to have sex. If sex is a distraction, prohibit that. If the problem is unwanted attention, prohibit sexual harrassment and/or rape. Oh, we already have. It seems to me the problem is mature adults not acting like mature adults.

boysda 11-07-2008 11:51 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
i would be more sympathetic to the concerns raised about homosexuals serving in the military, if they weren't the same objections i heard or read about integrating women and african americans in the armed forces.

As LBR said, albeit in making a different point, so long as they can serve and stay within the confines of the UCMJ, i got no issue with it.

LBR 11-07-2008 11:56 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

That's not the same thing. Not even close.
It's not the same thing, but not even close? You arewrong--either one issexual devience. If anything, an grown woman hitting on my son would be the most natural of the three.


I would take that a step further. I believe serving honorably in the military or some equivalent of public service should be a requirement of voting.
I don't agree, but it would be tempting--we wouldn't have had Clinton or BHO in the White House if that were the case. I'd be all for one having to be a taxpayer, or at least been a taxpayer for a certain amount of time, to be eligible to vote. That's neither here nor there though.

Chad

boysda 11-07-2008 12:13 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: LBR


I would take that a step further. I believe serving honorably in the military or some equivalent of public service should be a requirement of voting.
I don't agree, but it would be tempting--we wouldn't have had Clinton or BHO in the White House if that were the case.
Chad
neither would we have had adams, nor wilson, nor FDR.

peregordusmc 11-07-2008 12:28 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
Served in the United States Marine Corps. 2004-2008. Sgt/E5. Stationed in Japan, korea, and Iraq.Im not even sure where to begin. First of all my stance is gays should NOT be allowed in the military. From what i can recall from what i read on this; the only good aruement that i heard from those who think gays should be allowed was that if they want to serve their country and put their lives on the line why not allow them in. Thats a very good point. But the problem you have with that is just what you see here in this thread. Mattersof opinions.It will cause more problems in the military than it will benefit it. There already is enough problems with haveing women and men in the military. Sexual harrasment, rapes, adultry, the list goes on and on. You allow gays inthen you increase the number of cases that i just listed. Even with just straight men for example you still have issues. Like racism. Which leads to hate crimes. it still happens in the world today so dont think that it dont happen in the military. Add gays into the mix; hate crimes rise. This is not a perfect world and not everybody can get along with everyone. And that is a profession where people need to have their head in the game. Have their minds on the task at hand because it is a matter of life and death. And its not even justwhen they are in a combat environment. its when they are back here in the states and they are in training. Training is to help you prepare for combat. to help you do your jobs. if you cant pay attention during training because some homosexual has a tendacy to look your direction in the middle of your training; you are no longer paying attention to what is being said and you are now thinking what the hell is he looking at. You could miss some valuable information. then you get into living quarters which seems to be the most brought up issue here. Yes we do live in very tight quarters. You live, sleep, eat, shower, and sh** together. Men and women in the military have seperate living quarters for obvious reasons. Now how in the world do you go about having living quaters for homosexuals? You cant have gays living with the same sex for simple reasons as sexual harrasment cases. Sexual harrasment is any unwanted gestures. Whether it be a touch, somethining said, or a look. You have one miss understanded and you could have a sexual harrassment case. Dont need that. You cant have gay men living with straight women cause then you are just going to have men saying they are gay so they can live with the women. Vis versa with gay women living with straight men. And then you cant have gay men living with other gay men because that would be like have straight men living with straight women. The military doesnt condon having sexual intercourse in the living quarters. It doesnt matter whether they are married or not. Work together or not. One simple reason is sexually transmitted diseases. Yes it still happens, every rule gets broken one way or the other by one person or an other. So what do you do for living quarters for homosexuals? Now say you had a good solution for that question. I can almost bet with 100% confidence that its going to cost money. So the military needs more money to accomadate these homosexuals. where does the military get the money to pay for anything whether it be weapons, tranportation, living quarters, etc? From taxes right? So give me some reasons why it would be beneficial to allow gays to be in the military or be open in the military. Because like its been said already there are definitly homos in the military. So those of you that think they should be allowed in the militaryi challenge you to find good reason that the military should change their policies on homosexualality.

ipscshooter 11-07-2008 12:53 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: LBR


I would take that a step further. I believe serving honorably in the military or some equivalent of public service should be a requirement of voting.
I don't agree, but it would be tempting--we wouldn't have had Clinton or BHO in the White House if that were the case. I'd be all for one having to be a taxpayer, or at least been a taxpayer for a certain amount of time, to be eligible to vote. That's neither here nor there though.

Chad
I agree, Chad. Tax PAYER. If you pay income taxes into the system, you get to vote. I'm pretty sure the government maintains a pretty detailed list of who's eating the government cheese, and who's paying for the cheese...

etothepii 11-07-2008 12:56 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
A poll tax is unconstitutional. I bet any other restriction would be found as such.

Lanse couche couche 11-07-2008 01:13 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
One good reason for a policy change could be a shortage of personnel. My understanding is that there were multiple instances of gays being "outed" in recent years, but officers turned a blind eye to it because they could not afford to lose those people. Please note, I am not arguing either for or against, just offering a situation when the military seems willing tobe a bit "flexible" in its policy toward gays.

boysda 11-07-2008 01:21 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: peregordusmc

Even with just straight men for example you still have issues. Like racism. Which leads to hate crimes.

so, perhaps we should only allow caucasians to serve?

LBR 11-07-2008 01:46 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

so, perhaps we should only allow caucasians to serve?
Do you think only caucasians are capable of hate crimes? Did you ever serve boysda? Just what is a hate crime anyway? If a whiteguy murders a white guy, that's somehow more acceptable/less deserving of punishment than if a white guymurders a black guy? Or if a straight guy murders a straight guy, that's not as bad as a straight guy murderinga gay guy? If the black guy or the gay is the murderer, and the victim is white/straight, is it still a "hate crime"?

"Hate crime" legislation is one of the most stupid, biased, and racial pieces of crap to ever be born of pollitical correctness. Murder is murder. Dead is dead.

peregordusmc covered a lot, but just the tip of the iceberg. Most who have served in the military understand this--there's not even a reasonable solution on how to bunk gays. They would REQUIRE special services, treatment, etc. More than likely that's why Clinton stopped with "Don't ask, don't tell, don't persue"--someone told him how anything more would be opening up a can of worms that would bankrupt the military. I don't think he much cared about how he destroyed morale.

If you haven't served, then you can't understand.

Chad

RenaissanceBiker 11-07-2008 02:00 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: LBR


That's not the same thing. Not even close.
It's not the same thing, but not even close? You arewrong--either one issexual devience. If anything, an grown woman hitting on my son would be the most natural of the three.
No, children are not able to consent to sexual behavior. It is wrong for an adult of either sex toapproach them for that purpose. That is very different from what two consenting adults do in private. I'm sure some would consider oral sex to be deviant. There used to be laws against it, and in some places there may still be.My wife and Ioften enjoy that as part of our healthy monogamous relationship. I still think the problem is not what two consenting adults do in private. The problem is how you feel about it and that is beyond their control.

ETA: I just realized that all of the problems you mentioned are not connected with what they do in private. You have a problem with how they behave in public. This includes the community shower and sleeping areas. I agree that they should be required to maintain their military bearing in these areas, just as everyone else should. All the things you mentioned would be prohibited by existing laws and regulations against harrassment, rape, etc. that apply to everyone.

bigbulls 11-07-2008 02:06 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

Men and women in the military have seperate living quarters for obvious reasons. Now how in the world do you go about having living quaters for homosexuals? You cant have gays living with the same sex for simple reasons as sexual harrasment cases.
Exactly......... puting ays and straights of the same sex in the same living quartersis no different than puting straights of the oposite sex in the same living quarters.

You people that say that homosexuality is something you are born with..... If that is the casethen it is intheir genetics andI would say that they are genetically inferior as a human. It is an unnatural genetic inferiority to have the desire to breed with the same sex. Males were geneticaly designed by nature and / or God to be together withand reproduce with females.

The genetically superior members of the species in no way should be forced by the inferior members to accomodate their ways.

LBR 11-07-2008 02:22 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

No, children are not able to consent to sexual behavior.
They can't LEGALLY consent--conveniently leaving out that one word changes a lot. Being openly gay isn't legal in the military either. Not even close huh?


That is very different from what two consenting adults do in private.
Were you really in the military, or did you just make that part up? If you did, then you would know you loose a big portion of your privacy, especially if you live in the barracks, when deployed, etc. I guess you're all for co-ed showers, bunks, etc.? If not, why not? What's the difference?


The problem is how you feel about it and that is beyond their control.
Then address all the points made and offer a logical solution to them. You won't, because you can't. Even Clinton couldn't.

Chad

RenaissanceBiker 11-07-2008 03:05 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
Yes, Iserved 2 yearsin the U.S. Army and lived in the barracks at Fort Benning. There we had 2-man dorm style rooms withone communityshower and latrine on each floor. Ihad onepeacetime deployment overseas to Costa Rica. I lived in a GP medium with 9 other guys for 3 months in the middle of the jungle. We had a tent city withone mess tent and oneshower tent for 300 people (men and women showered at different times). Honestly, we were too busy with our mission to worry about who we were working with. I met my wife after I returned from Costa Rica but before I was discharged. Ididn't serve during an armed conflict but I was ready for one. Desert Stormbegan one year after I got out. When the ground war began, my wife and I were in the delivery room for the birth of our first child. I was really torn between my duty to my new family andknowing that all my buddies were over there in harm's way. When they returned I made a special tripback to buy them all beers and hear their stories.

I have always been a monogamous heterosexual. I had gay friends before I joined the Armyand have known some openly gay peoplesince I got out. They have never bothered me. People are people. There are good and bad people in just about every sub-group you can name.

boysda 11-07-2008 03:17 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: LBR


so, perhaps we should only allow caucasians to serve?
Do you think only caucasians are capable of hate crimes?
no, but irrelevent to my contention


Did you ever serve boysda?
yes


They would REQUIRE special services, treatment, etc.
as do women


More than likely that's why Clinton stopped with "Don't ask, don't tell, don't persue"--someone told him how anything more would be opening up a can of worms that would bankrupt the military. I don't think he much cared about how he destroyed morale.
many of the same arguments were leveled against Truman in '48


If you haven't served, then you can't understand.

bull****. i have served and i do understand.

i understand it's a mindless prejudice, and the arguments are EXACTLY the same as the arguments raised against racial integration in the military and against allowing women to serve. (the only difference is we all know that homosexuals have secretly served alongside heterosexuals for years)

the answer? the same answer the military has used since the dawn of time: discipline.

"blacks can't serve alongside white because they're inferior soldiers, and co-mingling of the races will lead to a breakdown in discipline"

guess what? we integrated, and by force of discipline, the military accomodated, and blacks have been serving with distinction alongside whites ever since.

"woman can't serve in combat because they're weaker than men, there'll be orgies, and the logistics will be impractical"

guess what-they now serve in combat roles alongside men, againwith honor and distinction.

in fact, i have heard over and over again that today's american soldier is, person for person, the finest and best trainedsoldier we've ever fielded. and i believe that. and in their proud ranks you'll find folks of all races, genders, and sexual orientationsserving their country proudly.

the only difference is the latter group serves in secrecy.

boysda 11-07-2008 03:23 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: bigbulls

You people that say that homosexuality is something you are born with..... If that is the casethen it is intheir genetics andI would say that they are genetically inferior as a human. It is an unnatural genetic inferiority to have the desire to breed with the same sex. Males were geneticaly designed by nature and / or God to be together withand reproduce with females.

The genetically superior members of the species in no way should be forced by the inferior members to accomodate their ways.

interesting. for years, in ancient Greece, the "genetically inferior" soldiers of Thebes were the dominant soldiers in Greece. They fielded units of exclusively homosexual soldiers. in fact, the army of Thebes was the first group to consistently kick the vaunted Spartan army all over the peloponnisian peninsula.

incidently, by way of historical footnote, Sparta was the only city state were homosexuality was explicitly frowned upon..

burniegoeasily 11-07-2008 03:29 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
I never served in the military, so my chiming in is of no consequence. But I do recall a story of a lovers spat on a Naval ship that resulted in one homosexual man jamming the barrel of a large gun on a battle ship, just so it would blow up his lover who was cheating on him. It ended up blowing the whole side of the ship up along with many other service men. I believe that was in the 80s.

In a line from Grumpier old men;

Jack Lemon; “what’s your point Pop”
Burgess Meredith; “I don’t know, I just like that story.”


falcon 11-07-2008 03:59 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

But I do recall a story of a lovers spat on a Naval ship that resulted in one homosexual man jamming the barrel of a large gun on a battle ship, just so it would blow up his lover who was cheating on him.
That is the spin that the Navy initially put on that unfortunate accident and it was all lies. Hartwig had justgotten his top sectret security clearanceand would have been posted to a special assignment in London.

Burnie, that did not happen that way at all.The son of a good friend of mine was killed when that powder charge ignited. Another friend was the Master Chief gunners mate on a sister ship: The man was retired from the Navy as an E-9. He was asked to return to duty because he has served as a chief gunners mate on that ships of the Iowa class during the Korean and Viet Nam wars.

That ship was in horrible shape when she was de-mothballed. Additionally the propellant for the 16 inch guns had been manufactured in the 1940s and stored for decades in hot magazines in Hawthorne, NV. Much of it was badly deteriorated. Some illegal firing experiments were being carried out when the powder charge ignited. This was not the first powder charge to do so.


The first investigation into the explosion, conducted by the US Navy, concluded that one of the gun turret crewmembers, Clayton Hartwig, who died in the explosion, had placed an explosive device in the breech in a suicide attempt after the end of an alleged homosexual affair with another sailor. After outside observers questioned the methods and conclusions of the Navy's investigation, a further investigation in conjunction with Sandia National Laboratories found that an overram of the powder bags into the gun, along with the age, structure, and condition of the powder, had likely caused the explosion, but that a final determination on the true cause was impossible. Nevertheless, Hartwig was cleared of complicity and the Navy apologized to Hartwig's family.





A week after the long range shoot at Vieques, Iowa's new executive officer, Commander John Morse, directed a main battery drill, over the objections of his gun crews, in which Turrets One and Two fired while both were pointed 15° off the starboard side of the ship's bow. At this angle, one of Turret Two's guns was firing over Turret One. During the shoot, one of the powder bags in Turret Two's left gun began to smolder before the breechlock was closed. Jack Thompson, the left gun captain, was barely able to close and latch the breechlock before the gun discharged on its own. The concussion from Turret Two's guns shredded Turret One's gun bloomers (the canvas covers at the base of the main gun barrels) and damaged Turret One's electrical system. Dan Meyer said of the shoot that it was, "The most frightening experience I have ever had in my life. The shock wave blew out the turret officer's switchboard and the leads. We had no power, no lights for a time. Men were screaming. There was panic."[17]

Chuck7 11-07-2008 04:23 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
I knew about3 with whom I worked with...they ALL died within 5 years of AIDS. They worked at a group home..Thier job discription was to..

Feed handicapped children and bathe them..[&o]yes ..som eof them ended up dying too..mysteriously.

Chuck7 11-07-2008 04:51 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
Folks in my early statement I said they have a demonic spirit..I wasn't talking off the top of my head..I've studied and worked with many gay folks..The Word says in Romans 2 that God has given the up to a reprobate mind..They are telling the truth when they say God is telling them it's ok..The Prince of Darkness is their God and he is telling them it's OK ..I've talked for hours with them..We had at least 15 in the service..most were either cooks or medics..and yes..when they have a few drinks they begin giving everyone the "Smile." Because of AIDS I think it's very dangerous ..Most of the barricks are presently dorm type now anyway..at least with all the forts I stayed at..To be honest with ya I rarely showered with anyone..I would get up early to advoid that..

LBR 11-07-2008 05:37 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

the only difference is the latter group serves in secrecy.
Bull. Where do you house them? With each other, gay men with straight men, gay women with straight women, gay men with gaywomen, individually?

The only difference in being black, white, red, yellow, male, female, or homosexual is gays serve in secret? Riiiiggghhhttttt.....

I guess you never heard of any troubles that were caused by females and males being housed to closely either? Allowing gays to be open about their preferances in the military would be 10 times as bad IMO.

Sorry you have such prejudices concerning skin color--I didn't have anything to do with that, and I can't change the past.This is a whole different can of worms.

Chad

Vabowman 11-07-2008 05:47 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
only gays get AIDS??

falcon 11-07-2008 05:54 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
It is all about fear.

boysda 11-07-2008 07:37 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: LBR


the only difference is the latter group serves in secrecy.
Bull. Where do you house them?

where do you house women?



The only difference in being black, white, red, yellow, male, female, or homosexual is gays serve in secret? Riiiiggghhhttttt.....
right


I guess you never heard of any troubles that were caused by females and males being housed to closely either?
so, do you feel women shouldn't serve in the military?


Sorry you have such prejudices concerning skin color
sophmoric drivel. please point out out where i have personally voiced any racist statements, as opposed to stating stereotypical prejudices, and then debunking them, to illustrate a point? or perhaps you don't have the intellectual grasp to comprehend that simple rhetorical device?


--I didn't have anything to do with that, and I can't change the past.This is a whole different can of worms.
no it isn't. it's fear, and it's prejudice, and it's wrong. perhaps you can't change the past, but you can change the present.


BigTiny 11-07-2008 07:41 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 


ORIGINAL: RenaissanceBiker


ORIGINAL: BigTiny
It's a veteran thing, you wouldn't understand.
I'm a veteran and I understand completely. It doesn't bother me but it appears to bother you a lot. I can only say that prejudice and hate are symptoms of fear, the kind of fear that comes from ignorance. Don't feel threatened if a gay man makes a pass at you. Just treat him like an ugly woman and politely decline. There's no need to round up a lynch mob or ruin his career.
It doesn't bother me, but his whining did. I admit to being a smart-ass when I posted it.



boysda 11-07-2008 07:47 PM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

ORIGINAL: BigTiny

I admit to being a smart-ass when I posted it.

aren't you, in fact, a smart ass all the time:D

BigTiny 11-08-2008 07:55 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 


ORIGINAL: boysda


ORIGINAL: BigTiny

I admit to being a smart-ass when I posted it.

aren't you, in fact, a smart ass all the time:D
Not all the time, the election politico trolls have brought it out of me of late. I will try endeavorate to rehabilitate.

LBR 11-08-2008 08:21 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

where do you house women?
You dodge the obvious--or perhaps you don't have the intellectual grasp to comprehend the obvious? Do you bunk gays together, or with straights, or with the opposite sex, or individually, or post a guard and/or cameras in each room, or????? Who is supposed to provide the funding for the special housing? If one group gets special housing, why can't everyone?


right
Bull.


so, do you feel women shouldn't serve in the military?
Another dodge--oh well. Yes, I do feel that women should not serve in the military. Not because they cannot do the job, just because of the problems it creates. Guess you never saw any of this.


sophmoric drivel. please point out out where i have personally voiced any racist statements, as opposed to stating stereotypical prejudices, and then debunking them, to illustrate a point? or perhaps you don't have the intellectual grasp to comprehend that simple rhetorical device?
Lol--seems you were the one that brought race into the discussion, then try to hide behind an overcharged vocabulary rather than attempt to give a straight answer to a question.


no it isn't. it's fear, and it's prejudice, and it's wrong. perhaps you can't change the past, but you can change the present.
Yes, it is. Sexual choices/preferances are nothing at all like the skin a person is born with. I can't change my skin color, but I can make moral choices. You try to say it's fear and prejudice--how ironic--you are judging me and you don't know me from Adam's housecat. It's wrong and unnatural and abnormal behavior. I refuse to accept that, just as I refuse to accept someone wanting to have "relations" with a child or farm animal.

Do you feel that an adult/child relationship, or an adult/animal relationship is ok, or are you also ate up with "fear and prejudice"? Hey, some people claim they are just born with abnormal sexual appetites--it's not their fault, and they can't help it, so let's just force society to accept that behavior and taxpayers can help cover the consequences of it--right? A guy wanting to "marry" a llama is no different than a couple with different skin colors being married, except the guy with the llama has to keep his relationship secret. Right? Should this guy be able to serve in the military? Should special accomodations be made for his llama? If not, why not?

Chad

vc1111 11-08-2008 08:32 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 

IMO, and again you don't have to point out that I've never served, but for those who are there for their country and confident in their sexuality should have nothing to worry about. Sexual harassment from a gay man would be as likely to occur as it is between a man and a woman, so however likely that is, take it for what its worth. If you're there for your country and nothing else, why would someone else's sexuality bother you? I think its a little pretentious on your part to think YOU have something to worry about.
This would be truly comical if you were not serious.

You have no understanding of military or martial policy. The military is about proficiency, efficiency, and the dealing of death and destruction. It is not about "fairness" in any way, shape, or form. It is not about being nice to one another or showing grace.

If only 160 pound males of African-American descent (or whatever description provides the highest, most effective method of killing) make the best fighter pilots, then that is who we should place in control of our machines of death.

National security is at stake, which is another subject that I am quite certain is only some sort of cute theory for you, wahoo. As such, there is no tolerance for distraction, let alone chaos in the ranks. If that offends your delicate sensibilities, too bad.

Want to support the freedom of those of our persuasion? Are you willing to participate in killing our enemies to do so? It is no game, wahoo; it is not some high-minded philosophy to be tested over nice latte from Starbucks. People like you, with warm fuzzy ideas, and homosexuals need not apply.

LBR 11-08-2008 08:40 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
Excellent post VC. That says it in a nutshell--the military isn't some social experiment. Liberals have a hard time grasping that fact.

FWIW, I wanted to be a fighter pilot, but I didn't meet the physical criteria--basically I wouldn't fit in the cockpit. I didn't go crying to the ACLU about prejudice against big guys and demand the military design a new jet just for me.

Chad

vc1111 11-08-2008 08:57 AM

RE: Opinion from veterans
 
Thanks, LBR.

The Romans knew how to wage war. We're in the process of forgetting the rules of dealing death. Tolerance for inevitable homosexual activities within largely male ranks? Embedded reporters? Excuse me?


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