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kids poll

Old 11-03-2008, 11:02 AM
  #31  
Nontypical Buck
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Default RE: kids poll

ORIGINAL: AlaskaMagnum

ORIGINAL: mudhead1s wife

It's called a ceasarean birth, and the doctors do what they can to save the baby. It is candy coated and it's bull. I believe Obama also voted that underage girls should be able to get abortions without parental consent or notification. And what happens when this teenage girl doesn't stop bleeding and is afraid to go to her parents in fear that they will find out? And you think abortion is a good thing?
You know, in general, I belive you are right. IN GENERAL. Of course, in your scenario, you leave out the obvious. Some girls are IMPREGNATED BY THEIR OWN FATHERS, their mother's boyfriend's, etc.? Think it's rare? Oh it's not mainstream, but it is certainly not THAT uncommon. Most facilities for sexually abused girls are overflowing, there is a waiting list for the girls who need treatment. The lucky ones get a room and have to stay for months on end to get some help. The unlucky ones get sent to foster homes until there is an "opening".

I challenge you, have you ever been to a mental hospital for teenaged girls? Have you? Have you ever spent time there, played a game of chess or monopoly with the girls? My wife volunteered at one for a few years to help out a neighborhood girl who was victimized by her stepfather. I went with her sometimes, and got to know some of the girl's and some of their stories. I promise you this, what our country does to it's children is dispicable. Some of these girls have been sexually abused by the very people who are suppossed to protect them since they were 12 or 13.

So, you area fourteen year old girl who is being sexually abused by your no good father, and he impregnantes you. What do you do? Your mother won't back your story, and if they kick you out, where do you go?Also, there might be drugs in the home, and then what happens if you tell someone and the police go find stepdaddy has a stash of heroin in the nightstand? So please do NOT tell me "go to the authorities" because you are correct. These are kids, and they don't have the mental acumen to accuratley guage the consequence of purchasing a pack of cigarettes. Hell, most people can't stand up to an abusive boss, so don't tell me how a thirteen year old girl should just buck up and have the courage to turn in the only parents they have ever known.

Have you ever been a foster parent? Do you know how these kids come in? Do you know how awful the foster parent system is for these kids? Do you know how scared they are? How little they come to your home with? No clothes, no music videos, nothing familiar or anything that they can call their own. Have you ever seen howthey expect nothing good from people? They trust no one, because they have no reason to trust anyone. Have you ever tried to win the trust of an adolescent like that?

It's all jello and pudding for the Republicans. I agree with you that in most cases, the parent should know. However, I also know damned good and well that some kids DON'T have that option. What do you do about them? I really want to know, how do YOU handle that situation that happens thousands of times every day in America.

Sorry this ended up all in the same box so to simplify my post starts here.

I was one of those abused girls. My brother in-law started molesting me when I was about 11. And he raped me when I was 16. My mom and my sister didn't believe me. So I didn't go to the authorities until I was in my 20's. My dad would have believed me but I couldn't look my daddy in the face and tell him. I didn't want to see the pain in his eyes every time he looked at me. My parents were divorced at the time and my dad worked nights. I slept with a knife in my room if I slept at night at all. When I couldn't take it any more I moved in with my mom in Iowa and she kicked me out within a month of being there. I moved in with a girl whose neighbors where crack heads. Then came back to MN and moved in with a friend a block from my dads.
My dad now knows what happened, he now knows why my grades plummeted. And he knows why I didn't go to him.
I was not impregnanted by my brother in-law, and I am truly thankful of that, but it was a fear for many months. I didn't trust anyone but my dad. I didn't sleep well for a long time and it wasn't until I was married that the nightmares finally went away. But in the event that I would have been pregnant I would not have aborted it. I would have tried to take care of the baby and if it would have been to much I would have contacted an adoption agency. You see I had met girls who had an abortion and it messed them up, big time. I had met girls who were raped and kept their baby. Abortion has been murder to me since I can remember.
I agree that more has to be done for these girls, but I know it isn't easy for them, I know it isn't easy for anyone to gain their trust. I still have trust issues, and I don't like to be touched by people. I have been going to the same church for 8 years and it still makes me uncomfortable to shake hands with the men at the church.

Which is why I feel they need to do more for these girls. And I don't think abortion is the answer always. I would prefer that if it has to be without the parents consent that it be birth control which in MN it is legal for girls to go in and get birthcontrol with out parental consent. But to be honest AlaskaMagnum, an abortion does not take away the initial abuse. The scars and the wounds are there. And in a perfect world we wouldn't have sexual abuse, but that is not the case. So now we have to find the best way possible to help these girls. I can honestly tell you that I don't believe abortion is the best way. These girls need a lot of counseling, they need to feel safe, and they need to feel loved for who they are. I will never condemn a girl who had an abortion because she was raped. It is not an easy choice, but I feel more careful consideration needs to be made before they legalize this. There is no quick fix for this and we are kidding ourselves if we think that there is. The procedure for an abortion is basically the same as a DNC which is when a mom has a miscarriage. And I am afraid that through this procedure that these girls are just going to feel re-violated all over again. I didn't say what I said just because of a religious conviction but as a victim of abuse and knowing other victims as well.





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Old 11-03-2008, 11:22 AM
  #32  
Nontypical Buck
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whoaa, I just found this thread again after a couple of days. i apologize for those who i offended, however, I will not apologize for knowing what many of you seem to fail to grasp: the actual meaning of pro-choice. I myself do not support the act of abortion and I'd like to hope that I'm never involved in such a situation, however, I do not believe it is the governments job to make this decision for women which makes me pro-choice. So for those of you saying "will you hold the cells" blah,blah, blah that is just irreleveant because I do not support the act itsself.

and, whoever said this isn't a ethics case or what not, thats exactly what you all made it when you said "would you hold the cells" or "its a baby being killed." No, that's not what I'm talking about, i'm talking about the political definition of pro-choice. some of you still can't seem to get that
And here is what you aren't getting. By saying you allow the women to choose in the current system with the laws that are being pushed there is no justice for women. Do you honestly think that these abortion doctors are taking the time to counsel these patients? The law states that it is not a baby, so they have a tendancy to gloss over a lot of the stuff. Just like when you go to the doc and he gives you a prescription and tells you the major side effects but you fill your prescription and there is this long list of side effects, which a lot are the same as the symptoms you are treating and there is potentially no relief.
Like I said I don't think that abortion all together will be made illegal, but the present system is a joke. Abortion and it's after effect is glorified when there is nothing glorious about it. Girls walk in looking for a way to fix their problems, and it does get rid of the baby. But the after effect is depression, guilt, and then there are the medical effects as well.

So in choosing to say that it should be up to the woman with it's current laws in very unjust, to the women, to the men who would have chose to raise that child.... Abortion is not only destroying the baby but it is destroying some of these girls who are misconceived by the facts. Who don't know the facts. The fact of the matter is over 90% of abortions could be avoided, by teaching women that they need to be responsible with their bodies, the morning after pill is designed for rape victims, and just because you get the morning after pill does not mean that you have to filea report if you are not willing.
You see most women had the choices to prevent the pregnancy. And for most of those who do not have that choice because it was taken away, do have other options that are more viable. They are cheaper, less intrusive when it comes to rape victims, and they are proven to not cause further damage.
Does this help you understand a bit better where I am coming from?
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Old 11-03-2008, 11:59 AM
  #33  
 
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ORIGINAL: wahoohunter

I myself do not support the act of abortion and I'd like to hope that I'm never involved in such a situation, however, I do not believe it is the governments job to make this decision for women which makes me pro-choice. So for those of you saying "will you hold the cells" blah,blah, blah that is just irreleveant because I do not support the act itsself.
I appologize if you have already answered this question. I tried to look around, butmy computer is moving like a snail this morning.

Your statement is similar to what I hear from Obama, but I just don't get it. Please, just forget all the politics for a moment and explain why you do not "support the act of abortion".
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Old 11-03-2008, 01:42 PM
  #34  
 
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Which is why I feel they need to do more for these girls. And I don't think abortion is the answer always. I would prefer that if it has to be without the parents consent that it be birth control which in MN it is legal for girls to go in and get birthcontrol with out parental consent. But to be honest AlaskaMagnum, an abortion does not take away the initial abuse. The scars and the wounds are there. And in a perfect world we wouldn't have sexual abuse, but that is not the case. So now we have to find the best way possible to help these girls. I can honestly tell you that I don't believe abortion is the best way. These girls need a lot of counseling, they need to feel safe, and they need to feel loved for who they are. I will never condemn a girl who had an abortion because she was raped. It is not an easy choice, but I feel more careful consideration needs to be made before they legalize this. There is no quick fix for this and we are kidding ourselves if we think that there is. The procedure for an abortion is basically the same as a DNC which is when a mom has a miscarriage. And I am afraid that through this procedure that these girls are just going to feel re-violated all over again. I didn't say what I said just because of a religious conviction but as a victim of abuse and knowing other victims as well.


Thanks for sharing your story, and sorry to hear that life has not been all peaches for you. I guess my point is, you chose to handle the situation the way you FELT was best, and it seems to have worked for you. Where I diverge opinions though, seems to be your belief that your choices would serve EVERYONE, and that just is not true. Others may have completely different personalities, and for them, a different path might be the right path. You see, I used to be a die-hard, Republican, but as I got our more and more in the world, I began to realize that the Kantain philosophy was right. I can only experience the world through my eyes, and what works for me, may very well not work for the next person. There is no black or white, we are surrounded by shades of gray. I respect your opinion, but I do not believe that what works for you is the only option, and I think that we need to have a safety valve for these children, and I think parental notification in all cases and all conditions does not protect the lives of some of these young girls.


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Old 11-03-2008, 02:16 PM
  #35  
 
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First, I am pro-life AND pro-choice.

Now, regarding abortion...... I am anti-abortion. I believe it is murder. It is very plain and simple to me. I am a Christian, so it is a religious issue for me. BUT, I was also anti-abortion prior to becoming a Christian. It was not a religious issue for me then, it was common sense that told me that there was a life that was being killed. I don't see how anyone can look at a picture of a fetus and say that it is not a life and it is OK to kill.

I can't speak for other anti-abortion folks, but I assume their belief is similar to mine. To all you that believe that the mother should have the right to an abortion, can you at least understand where I am coming from? It's murder, so the mother can not kill the baby.

Now, PLEASE, someone explain how Obama and Wahoo can be "against the act of abortion" and still support a woman's right to an abortion. WHY are you "against the act of abortion"???

Seriously, I have stated exactly what I believe and why I believe it in a few sentences. Can/will someone from the other side do the same?
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Old 11-03-2008, 02:18 PM
  #36  
 
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I think parental notification in all cases and all conditions does not protect the lives of some of these young girls.
No, only 95% of the time, so let's not do it!
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Old 11-03-2008, 02:47 PM
  #37  
Nontypical Buck
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Which is why I feel they need to do more for these girls. And I don't think abortion is the answer always. I would prefer that if it has to be without the parents consent that it be birth control which in MN it is legal for girls to go in and get birthcontrol with out parental consent. But to be honest AlaskaMagnum, an abortion does not take away the initial abuse. The scars and the wounds are there. And in a perfect world we wouldn't have sexual abuse, but that is not the case. So now we have to find the best way possible to help these girls. I can honestly tell you that I don't believe abortion is the best way. These girls need a lot of counseling, they need to feel safe, and they need to feel loved for who they are. I will never condemn a girl who had an abortion because she was raped. It is not an easy choice, but I feel more careful consideration needs to be made before they legalize this. There is no quick fix for this and we are kidding ourselves if we think that there is. The procedure for an abortion is basically the same as a DNC which is when a mom has a miscarriage. And I am afraid that through this procedure that these girls are just going to feel re-violated all over again. I didn't say what I said just because of a religious conviction but as a victim of abuse and knowing other victims as well.


Thanks for sharing your story, and sorry to hear that life has not been all peaches for you. I guess my point is, you chose to handle the situation the way you FELT was best, and it seems to have worked for you. Where I diverge opinions though, seems to be your belief that your choices would serve EVERYONE, and that just is not true.My point was abortion is not the only option. That in many cases it could be avoided. In my opinion the surgery is very invasive and could be in many cases more problematic than helpful. Everyone is different and we all handle things differently. I have lost time frames from blacking out some things. From about 11 to 16 my time frame is pretty fuzzy,I lost some good memories along with a few of thebad. They may come back and they may not. I have had flshbacks so you never know. But either way what I am saying is that there are other options that are not detrimental to the girl.That will not hinder her healing process. Which is why the system needs to be changed. These girls deserve better than what they are getting, and that includes abortion.Others may have completely different personalities, and for them, a different path might be the right path. You see, I used to be a die-hard, Republican, but as I got our more and more in the world, I began to realize that the Kantain philosophy was right. I can only experience the world through my eyes, and what works for me, may very well not work for the next person. There is no black or white, we are surrounded by shades of gray. I respect your opinion, but I do not believe that what works for you is the only option, and I think that we need to have a safety valve for these children, and I think parental notification in all cases and all conditions does not protect the lives of some of these young girls.




I understand where you are coming from, and it is nice to know that you feel compassion for these girls, we need more who are. I just don't think abortion is the answer. I have seen the effects of abortion, and I think more often than not it is not good for these moms. Okay maybe this will help you understand where I am coming from. A little girl who is abused, ecspecially by a male has a love complex. They want to be loved, they want to feel safe, and they want to be shame free. They will think about the baby that was aborted, they will wonder what the baby would have been like, and they will associate babies as unconditional love. At a young age girls begin to mimick their moms, they will be mother like, wanting to care for babies and so on. This can be extremly strong in some girls. It was for me, which is part of why I wouldn't have been able to have an abortion in any case. Abortion is not a viable option because of the emotional stress it will put on the girl. And what I am saying is these girls need a viable option, they deserve to gethelp. They deserve to be protected. They shouldn't have to settle for less. And yes I believe with all that is in me that, that is whatabortion is. It is good intentions with, in many cases detrimental effects. They have allready lost so much, why add any more weight than absolutley neccesary?
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:34 PM
  #38  
 
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ORIGINAL: cascadedad

ORIGINAL: AlaskaMagnum

I think parental notification in all cases and all conditions does not protect the lives of some of these young girls.
No, only 95% of the time, so let's not do it!
And throw the other five percent to the wolves huh? It's always a good "strategy" until it's your behind or someone you care about's behind that is in the "other" five percent.
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Old 11-03-2008, 03:36 PM
  #39  
 
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. They have allready lost so much, why add any more weight than absolutley neccesary?
And if you insist on 100% parental notification, that is EXACTLY what you are doing to those who chose a different path than the one you take. Giving them even more opportunity to endure abuse.
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Old 11-03-2008, 04:02 PM
  #40  
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Default RE: kids poll

So sad in my school as well..we had our county kids election today..The results will be in tomorrow..But in my classroom of 17 I had...

Obama 13
Mc Cain 4...[&o][&o]

My classroom is primarily made up of low economical hispanics and blacks. The Mc Cain folks were 3 white and 1 black
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