Politics Nothing goes with politics quite like crying and complaining, and we're a perfect example of that.

Socialism?

Old 10-13-2008, 12:13 PM
  #1  
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,153
Default Socialism?

I saw a clip of Obama talking to a plumber who challenges Obama that under his plan he (the plumber) will pay more taxes. Obama says that he doesn't want to punish the plumber for his success, but he wants to spread the wealth around. It works better if the wealth is spread around to help those behind the plumber have a chance at success. Don't believe me, go to the link below and see for yourself. The plumber interchange is like the first 15 seconds of the video

http://www.breitbart.tv/html/195153.html

You can't find a much more frank admission of Obama's socialistic intentions. As pointed out in the follow-up analysis, what is not spoken about by Obama is that his plan includes writing checks out to low/no earners to "spread the wealth." It isn't just a matter of reducing taxes, it is sending a check to some of these people.
Alsatian is online now  
Old 10-13-2008, 12:29 PM
  #2  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: South of Mason-Dixon
Posts: 1,395
Default RE: Socialism?

"It's not that I want to punish your success. I just want to make sure that everybody that is behind you, that they have a chance for success too."
It's something else, isn't it? A lot of people railed against Gore in '00 and Kerry in '04 and against the Democratic platform in general since the '80s saying that it is socialism. But I honestly would have never believed that I would see a candidate for president make a statement like that one in my lifetime . . . or at least not until I was much older than I am now.

We obviously have learned nothing from the nations around the world that have failed for this very reason. America's economy works because it's a free economy. That means some excel, some get left behind. Usually it's because of hard work or lack thereof; sometimes it's just the unfortunate way the ball bounces. It isn't always fair, but life isn't fair. Once we start down the slippery slope towards wealth redistribution and equal wealth, what's the motivation for the American entrepreneurs who have created millions of jobs and generated billions in wages for us over the years, to keep striving to achieve that same level?
Griswold is offline  
Old 10-13-2008, 12:42 PM
  #3  
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,153
Default RE: Socialism?

Of course, now Obama claims he will raise taxes only on the upper 5% of earners. This appeals to people -- basically people who don't think through the issues or are not really looking at principles (more on this in a moment) -- because 95% of them feel they are out of harms way and may even benefit from this. But with a little bit of analysis, it is pretty clear that Obama's plans won't work in the real world if the tax increases are confined to only the upper 5%. Clearly the net of tax increases is going to have to be larger, and maybe the upper 15% or the upper 30% of earners will experience tax increases.

On this question of principles. A well dressed man in a bar asks an attractive girl who has been consuming a drink alone if she will sleep with him for $1,000,000. The girl, somewhat taken aback, says "sure!" The man then asks her if she will sleep with him for $10. The girl, now offended, barks back at the man "What do you take me for?!!!" The man's response is "We have already established WHAT you are, now we are merely negotiating your price." If the principle of wealth redistribution is right, it is right whether it is only Bill Gates's and Warren Buffet's wealth that is getting redistributed or YOUR wealth that is getting redistributed, too. If the principle of wealth redistribution is wrong, it is wrong whether it is only Bill Gates's and Warren Buffet's wealth that is getting redistributed or YOUR wealth that is getting redistributed. In my opinion, wealth redistribution is WRONG -- end of story.

This parable of principles has clear application to the domain of gun control, by the way.
Alsatian is online now  
Old 10-13-2008, 12:47 PM
  #4  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 9,175
Default RE: Socialism?

We've seen how well elitism has worked, concentrating the wealth in the top 2%. And McCain wants to go even better for them. That's stupid. You don't fix the foundation by adding more shingles to the roof.

You don't rebuild the economy without strengthening the foundation of the economy. The middle class is the foundation of the economy. That's where demand is created. Take money out of the middle class, you decrease their buying power. Decreased buying power is decreased demand. Decreased demand means you have to decrease supply and lay off workers. Lay off workers and you decrease demand even further. Add in graft, greed and corruption, remove protective regulations and oversight and the whole system breaks down. Sound familiar?

You want to strengthen the economy, then strengthen the middle class. Significantly! Give them a meaningful tax break like Obama's plan. Put them to work, if nothing else, rebuilding our long neglected infrastructure. Put money in their pockets for them to spend and you've got demand. THAT is what creates jobs, not giving more money to the rich.

Socialism, my butt. It's straight supply and demand capitalism.
Arthur P is offline  
Old 10-13-2008, 12:51 PM
  #5  
Giant Nontypical
 
etothepii's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 8,561
Default RE: Socialism?

LOL!!! Capitalism is redistributing wealth through taxes. That's a new one!
etothepii is offline  
Old 10-13-2008, 12:56 PM
  #6  
bigcountry
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default RE: Socialism?

ORIGINAL: Arthur P

We've seen how well elitism has worked, concentrating the wealth in the top 2%. And McCain wants to go even better for them. That's stupid. You don't fix the foundation by adding more shingles to the roof.

You don't rebuild the economy without strengthening the foundation of the economy. The middle class is the foundation of the economy. That's where demand is created. Take money out of the middle class, you decrease their buying power. Decreased buying power is decreased demand. Decreased demand means you have to decrease supply and lay off workers. Lay off workers and you decrease demand even further. Add in graft, greed and corruption, remove protective regulations and oversight and the whole system breaks down. Sound familiar?

You want to strengthen the economy, then strengthen the middle class. Significantly! Give them a meaningful tax break like Obama's plan. Put them to work, if nothing else, rebuilding our long neglected infrastructure. Put money in their pockets for them to spend and you've got demand. THAT is what creates jobs, not giving more money to the rich.

Socialism, my butt. It's straight supply and demand capitalism.
Thats right, give everybody what they want. And in fantasy land, everything comes true. Take from the rich, give to the poor. Just read that story to my little boy the other day. I would say even he knows its a fairy tale.
 
Old 10-13-2008, 12:57 PM
  #7  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Baileysville, WV
Posts: 2,925
Default RE: Socialism?

In this day and age..the majority of those left behind seem to have made their own choice to be that way. Theres absolutely no incentive to get off public assistance and with the philosophy of spreading even more wealth to them I look for the public assistance demand to skyrocket...
Doe Dumper is offline  
Old 10-13-2008, 01:04 PM
  #8  
Nontypical Buck
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Michigan
Posts: 4,693
Default RE: Socialism?


ORIGINAL: Arthur P

We've seen how well elitism has worked, concentrating the wealth in the top 2%. And McCain wants to go even better for them. That's stupid. You don't fix the foundation by adding more shingles to the roof.

You don't rebuild the economy without strengthening the foundation of the economy. The middle class is the foundation of the economy. That's where demand is created. Take money out of the middle class, you decrease their buying power. Decreased buying power is decreased demand. Decreased demand means you have to decrease supply and lay off workers. Lay off workers and you decrease demand even further. Add in graft, greed and corruption, remove protective regulations and oversight and the whole system breaks down. Sound familiar?

You want to strengthen the economy, then strengthen the middle class. Significantly! Give them a meaningful tax break like Obama's plan. Put them to work, if nothing else, rebuilding our long neglected infrastructure. Put money in their pockets for them to spend and you've got demand. THAT is what creates jobs, not giving more money to the rich.

Socialism, my butt. It's straight supply and demand capitalism.

Wow. That is the most mixed up backward brainwashed thinking I've encountered in quite some time.

So, if you don't have a manufacturing base (where real wealth is created), you don't have a middle class. How is it that giving to the middle class (wealth redistribution), is going to increase demand if the jobs of the middle class are slowly eroding away?

I love it how candidates say "put them to work". Doing what exactly?
badshotbob is offline  
Old 10-13-2008, 01:13 PM
  #9  
Giant Nontypical
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location:
Posts: 6,153
Default RE: Socialism?

ORIGINAL: Arthur P

We've seen how well elitism has worked, concentrating the wealth in the top 2%. And McCain wants to go even better for them. That's stupid. You don't fix the foundation by adding more shingles to the roof.

You don't rebuild the economy without strengthening the foundation of the economy. The middle class is the foundation of the economy. That's where demand is created. Take money out of the middle class, you decrease their buying power. Decreased buying power is decreased demand. Decreased demand means you have to decrease supply and lay off workers. Lay off workers and you decrease demand even further. Add in graft, greed and corruption, remove protective regulations and oversight and the whole system breaks down. Sound familiar?

You want to strengthen the economy, then strengthen the middle class. Significantly! Give them a meaningful tax break like Obama's plan. Put them to work, if nothing else, rebuilding our long neglected infrastructure. Put money in their pockets for them to spend and you've got demand. THAT is what creates jobs, not giving more money to the rich.

Socialism, my butt. It's straight supply and demand capitalism.
Arthur P: I've got a couple problems. First, we are talking about increasing taxes. Deciding to NOT increase taxes (McCain) is not giving something away to the rich or further contentrating wealth in the hands of the rich.

Second, you haven't addressed one of my main points, which is WHO believes Obama that he is going to be able to make his programs fly -- balanced budgets, dramatically increased spending on social programs and alternative energy, keeping our national defenses strong -- while giving a tax cut to 95% of the population? That just isn't going to work.

I would entertain the proposition that some things aren't working in our economy for the little guy. It seems clear to me that if you work hard, get a good education, and apply yourself, that you can thrive and prosper in this economy. However, I have heard people attack this position with the argument that not everyone has the mental acuity to follow that path. What am I proposing, success only for the brainiacs and economic stagnation and decline for maybe the remaining 80% of the population or the remaining 70% of the population who can't cut it at a 4-year university and translate their academic achievement to success? Well, I don't know how to answer that. I guess I accept the idea that not everyone is equally gifted and not equally capable of following that path to success. On the other hand I am torn by the number of people I know personally who DO NOT apply themselves and strive for success, who blow off the opportunities available to them. People who when others are home busting their butts studying are watching TV, talking to friends on the phone, generally screwing off. This carries into the work place, too. Some folks are working diligently while others are endlessly posting to useless Internet forums about politics .. . oops! That might be me! Anyway, I'll grant that I don't have an answer for this problem and that I would entertain proposals for doing something about this. But simply taking money out of my pocket -- an income that I have risen to over years of striving, through about 17 years of college (full-time 1975 through 1981, part-time college while working full-time 1983 through 1995 -- 250 semester hours of college credit), through uprooting myself and moving to more advantageous regions of the country (first to Oklahoma in 1981 and then to Texas in 1996) -- to give away to someone else, I don't hold with that. I need to hear a better proposal.
Alsatian is online now  
Old 10-13-2008, 01:20 PM
  #10  
Giant Nontypical
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 6,471
Default RE: Socialism?

You want to strengthen the economy, then strengthen the middle class. Significantly! Give them a meaningful tax break like Obama's plan. Put them to work, if nothing else, rebuilding our long neglected infrastructure. Put money in their pockets for them to spend and you've got demand. THAT is what creates jobs, not giving more money to the rich.

Socialism, my butt. It's straight supply and demand capitalism

I would like to know long termwe can continue to re-distribute wealth when because of a failedtax strategy even more corps go offshore at an evenfaster rate. When we squeeze every last drop out of the rock(corporations and businesses) where will our government get the money? Europe hasfound out and is finding out as has the former USSR. The middle class did get a tax break and has had one for the past 7 years . WHere exactly have you been?
oldelkhunter is offline  

Quick Reply: Socialism?


Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.