Gun Control Down Under
04-26-2007, 08:47 AM
#41
Dominant Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: land of the Lilliputians, In the state of insanity
Posts: 26,274
RE: Gun Control Down Under
Thanks falcon for the link. It just boggles my minde that people would buy into the tripe Michael A. Bellesiles is pushing. One only needs to think back to High school history class. Did we not have manyvictories in the War of Independance due to our mass use of rifled barrled guns and their extended range. Our winning the war has even been credited to the rifel. How did Americans become such good shots with these weapons?? Could it have been because we had a lot of them and were practiced at useintg them. Besides, I had no clue my family was so rich. Ive got a bunch of guns that have been passed down from my grand parents that were made before and after the 20s.
04-26-2007, 09:27 AM
#42
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,602
RE: Gun Control Down Under
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Ben, Ben, Ben - you "forgot" to tell us that Australia's population has grown almost 15% since 1996. [:-] Your Assault, Sexual Assault and Robber numbers are TOTALS. You can just go ahead and subtract the 15% from those numbers to account for the population growth.
Ben, Ben, Ben - you "forgot" to tell us that Australia's population has grown almost 15% since 1996. [:-] Your Assault, Sexual Assault and Robber numbers are TOTALS. You can just go ahead and subtract the 15% from those numbers to account for the population growth.
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
...and the travel warnings are for the inner city ghetto in downtown Melbourne.
...and the travel warnings are for the inner city ghetto in downtown Melbourne.
04-26-2007, 10:53 AM
#44
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: Gun Control Down Under
Ben - now that you mention it - I looked up this "advisory" that you find so convincing. Quite interesting really, turns out that Japanese people spend billions every year traveling to Queensland. In a very suspicious effort to keep the money in-house, the Japanese travel ministry advised their citizens that it is much safer to travel in developing nations of the Asia Pacific region, and that they should stay away from Australia. Go figure.
Also should be noted that no other countries have issued similar "warnings."
The only warnings of traveling to Australia are: Weather, and Killer Jellyfish
By way of review:
HOMICIDE RATES decreased 17% (already a per-capita number, no adjustment req'd.)
ASSAULT: 1996 - 114,156. 2005 - 166,499 (Increase of 17% after population adjustment).
SEXUAL ASSAULT: 1996 - 14,542. 2005 - 18,172 (Increase of 5% after population adjustment).
ROBBERY: 1996 - 16,372. 2005 - 16,787 (DECREASE of 12% after population adjustment).
KIDNAPPING: 1996 - 478. 2005 - 730 (Increase of 20% after population adjustment).
So, we have two decreases of 17 and 12%, and three increases of 5, 15, and 20%. Hardly a crime-riddled society.
You're still ALMOST FIVE TIMES more likely to be MURDERED in the USA than you are in Australia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate
Also should be noted that no other countries have issued similar "warnings."
The only warnings of traveling to Australia are: Weather, and Killer Jellyfish
By way of review:
HOMICIDE RATES decreased 17% (already a per-capita number, no adjustment req'd.)
ASSAULT: 1996 - 114,156. 2005 - 166,499 (Increase of 17% after population adjustment).
SEXUAL ASSAULT: 1996 - 14,542. 2005 - 18,172 (Increase of 5% after population adjustment).
ROBBERY: 1996 - 16,372. 2005 - 16,787 (DECREASE of 12% after population adjustment).
KIDNAPPING: 1996 - 478. 2005 - 730 (Increase of 20% after population adjustment).
So, we have two decreases of 17 and 12%, and three increases of 5, 15, and 20%. Hardly a crime-riddled society.
You're still ALMOST FIVE TIMES more likely to be MURDERED in the USA than you are in Australia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_homicide_rate
04-26-2007, 11:34 AM
#45
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Central Illinois
Posts: 863
RE: Gun Control Down Under
A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.
where exactly do you two get "the 2nd amendment is about hunting" from?
where exactly do you two get "the 2nd amendment is about hunting" from?
04-26-2007, 11:55 AM
#46
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Tennessee
Posts: 2,602
RE: Gun Control Down Under
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Ben - now that you mention it - I looked up this "advisory" that you find so convincing. Quite interesting really, turns out that Japanese people spend billions every year traveling to Queensland. In a very suspicious effort to keep the money in-house, the Japanese travel ministry advised their citizens that it is much safer to travel in developing nations of the Asia Pacific region, and that they should stay away from Australia. Go figure.
Also should be noted that no other countries have issued similar "warnings."
The only warnings of traveling to Australia are: Weather, and Killer Jellyfish
By way of review:
HOMICIDE RATES decreased 17% (already a per-capita number, no adjustment req'd.)
ASSAULT: 1996 - 114,156. 2005 - 166,499 (Increase of 17% after population adjustment).
SEXUAL ASSAULT: 1996 - 14,542. 2005 - 18,172 (Increase of 5% after population adjustment).
ROBBERY: 1996 - 16,372. 2005 - 16,787 (DECREASE of 12% after population adjustment).
KIDNAPPING: 1996 - 478. 2005 - 730 (Increase of 20% after population adjustment).
So, we have two decreases of 17 and 12%, and three increases of 5, 15, and 20%. Hardly a crime-riddled society.
Ben - now that you mention it - I looked up this "advisory" that you find so convincing. Quite interesting really, turns out that Japanese people spend billions every year traveling to Queensland. In a very suspicious effort to keep the money in-house, the Japanese travel ministry advised their citizens that it is much safer to travel in developing nations of the Asia Pacific region, and that they should stay away from Australia. Go figure.
Also should be noted that no other countries have issued similar "warnings."
The only warnings of traveling to Australia are: Weather, and Killer Jellyfish
By way of review:
HOMICIDE RATES decreased 17% (already a per-capita number, no adjustment req'd.)
ASSAULT: 1996 - 114,156. 2005 - 166,499 (Increase of 17% after population adjustment).
SEXUAL ASSAULT: 1996 - 14,542. 2005 - 18,172 (Increase of 5% after population adjustment).
ROBBERY: 1996 - 16,372. 2005 - 16,787 (DECREASE of 12% after population adjustment).
KIDNAPPING: 1996 - 478. 2005 - 730 (Increase of 20% after population adjustment).
So, we have two decreases of 17 and 12%, and three increases of 5, 15, and 20%. Hardly a crime-riddled society.
If you figure the respective number of crimes with the population figures for each of those two years (which, incidentally, hasn't increased quite 15%), and apply them accordingly, you'd find different numbers than you posted. I'm just using the robbery statistic as an i.e. here. The robbery RATE has decreased just 6.7% since 1996, not 12%. A 6.7% decrease with all the harsh gun laws they now have in effect. You know what would be interesting? Look up how much our robbery rate has decreased during that same period with NO new gun laws. I bet it'd surprise you.
You're still ALMOST FIVE TIMES more likely to be MURDERED in the USA than you are in Australia.
04-26-2007, 11:56 AM
#47
Giant Nontypical
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 5,716
RE: Gun Control Down Under
Well, last I checked, I'm not organizing a mountain militia with my buddies. Also, I'm not some gun nut wackjob collecting pistols and AR15's waiting for theRed Dawnwith my tinfoil hat strapped on and "Born to Die" scrawled on the buttstock.
So, as far as I'm concerned, my right to bear arms goes as far as my deer rifle and ends there.
Far too many idiotic people toting around handguns and buying high-powered rifles around here for my liking. This thread proves that point, because I wouldopine that there are a few contributors to this thread alone who are unfit to carry a concealed firearm, given their obvious short-temper. Hell, here in Pennsylvania, I'm convinced they would give a concealed carry permit to Satan himself if he actually applied.
I've lost all faith in people, and I've seen enough to know that I'm fed up with it. You guys have ruined it for yourselves....and to think... I actually was an NRA MEMBER at one point! I even wrote my senior paper in opposition of Gun Control!
I guess 9-11, Columbine, VT, and countless episodes of watching trashbag scumballsshooting their wives, kids, each other, shooting at random, et cetera, will do that to a guy.
One thing to remember: While the Second Amendment grants the right to bear arms, it is always subject to the Federal Police Power.
At this point, I'd say we're ripe for a tightening of the screws, and an exercise of the police power over the flow/distribution/ownership/carrying of handguns. The American gun culture has become absolutely sickening, and it's people like me, responsible gun-owning hunters, who are paying the price.
__________________________________________________
Ben - we're gonna have to agree to disagree on the statistics. Either way, it's obvious that while crime hasn't been eliminated, it surely hasn't skyrocketed either. That's very clear. I just hear people going bananas over all this nutso propaganda email forward (circa 2001)that it's become so bad in Australia, blah blah blah. The fact still remains thatyou're still five times more likely to get murdered right here in the good ol' U.S.A.
So, I'll agree that while Gun Control hasn't REDUCED crime on a large scale in Australia, it surely hasn't INCREASED it either. Anyone who has actually set down and looked up the statistics knows that this is true. You know it and I know it. It was a wash, but it took a lot of guns off the street. We also know that it had no effect on hunting, either.
Gun advocates always lump gun control in with hunting, which are two totally unrelated items, as proven in Australia.
So, as far as I'm concerned, my right to bear arms goes as far as my deer rifle and ends there.
Far too many idiotic people toting around handguns and buying high-powered rifles around here for my liking. This thread proves that point, because I wouldopine that there are a few contributors to this thread alone who are unfit to carry a concealed firearm, given their obvious short-temper. Hell, here in Pennsylvania, I'm convinced they would give a concealed carry permit to Satan himself if he actually applied.
I've lost all faith in people, and I've seen enough to know that I'm fed up with it. You guys have ruined it for yourselves....and to think... I actually was an NRA MEMBER at one point! I even wrote my senior paper in opposition of Gun Control!
I guess 9-11, Columbine, VT, and countless episodes of watching trashbag scumballsshooting their wives, kids, each other, shooting at random, et cetera, will do that to a guy.
One thing to remember: While the Second Amendment grants the right to bear arms, it is always subject to the Federal Police Power.
At this point, I'd say we're ripe for a tightening of the screws, and an exercise of the police power over the flow/distribution/ownership/carrying of handguns. The American gun culture has become absolutely sickening, and it's people like me, responsible gun-owning hunters, who are paying the price.
__________________________________________________
Ben - we're gonna have to agree to disagree on the statistics. Either way, it's obvious that while crime hasn't been eliminated, it surely hasn't skyrocketed either. That's very clear. I just hear people going bananas over all this nutso propaganda email forward (circa 2001)that it's become so bad in Australia, blah blah blah. The fact still remains thatyou're still five times more likely to get murdered right here in the good ol' U.S.A.
So, I'll agree that while Gun Control hasn't REDUCED crime on a large scale in Australia, it surely hasn't INCREASED it either. Anyone who has actually set down and looked up the statistics knows that this is true. You know it and I know it. It was a wash, but it took a lot of guns off the street. We also know that it had no effect on hunting, either.
Gun advocates always lump gun control in with hunting, which are two totally unrelated items, as proven in Australia.
04-26-2007, 01:04 PM
#49
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: West Central Illinois
Posts: 863
RE: Gun Control Down Under
ORIGINAL: quiksilver
Well, last I checked, I'm not organizing a mountain militia with my buddies. Also, I'm not some gun nut wackjob collecting pistols and AR15's waiting for theRed Dawnwith my tinfoil hat strapped on and "Born to Die" scrawled on the buttstock.
So, as far as I'm concerned, my right to bear arms goes as far as my deer rifle and ends there.
Far too many idiotic people toting around handguns and buying high-powered rifles around here for my liking. This thread proves that point, because I wouldopine that there are a few contributors to this thread alone who are unfit to carry a concealed firearm, given their obvious short-temper. Hell, here in Pennsylvania, I'm convinced they would give a concealed carry permit to Satan himself if he actually applied.
I've lost all faith in people, and I've seen enough to know that I'm fed up with it. You guys have ruined it for yourselves....and to think... I actually was an NRA MEMBER at one point! I even wrote my senior paper in opposition of Gun Control!
I guess 9-11, Columbine, VT, and countless episodes of watching trashbag scumballsshooting their wives, kids, each other, shooting at random, et cetera, will do that to a guy.
One thing to remember: While the Second Amendment grants the right to bear arms, it is always subject to the Federal Police Power.
At this point, I'd say we're ripe for a tightening of the screws, and an exercise of the police power over the flow/distribution/ownership/carrying of handguns. The American gun culture has become absolutely sickening, and it's people like me, responsible gun-owning hunters, who are paying the price.
__________________________________________________
Ben - we're gonna have to agree to disagree on the statistics. Either way, it's obvious that while crime hasn't been eliminated, it surely hasn't skyrocketed either. That's very clear. I just hear people going bananas over all this nutso propaganda email forward (circa 2001)that it's become so bad in Australia, blah blah blah. The fact still remains thatyou're still five times more likely to get murdered right here in the good ol' U.S.A.
So, I'll agree that while Gun Control hasn't REDUCED crime on a large scale in Australia, it surely hasn't INCREASED it either. Anyone who has actually set down and looked up the statistics knows that this is true. You know it and I know it. It was a wash, but it took a lot of guns off the street. We also know that it had no effect on hunting, either.
Gun advocates always lump gun control in with hunting, which are two totally unrelated items, as proven in Australia.
Well, last I checked, I'm not organizing a mountain militia with my buddies. Also, I'm not some gun nut wackjob collecting pistols and AR15's waiting for theRed Dawnwith my tinfoil hat strapped on and "Born to Die" scrawled on the buttstock.
So, as far as I'm concerned, my right to bear arms goes as far as my deer rifle and ends there.
Far too many idiotic people toting around handguns and buying high-powered rifles around here for my liking. This thread proves that point, because I wouldopine that there are a few contributors to this thread alone who are unfit to carry a concealed firearm, given their obvious short-temper. Hell, here in Pennsylvania, I'm convinced they would give a concealed carry permit to Satan himself if he actually applied.
I've lost all faith in people, and I've seen enough to know that I'm fed up with it. You guys have ruined it for yourselves....and to think... I actually was an NRA MEMBER at one point! I even wrote my senior paper in opposition of Gun Control!
I guess 9-11, Columbine, VT, and countless episodes of watching trashbag scumballsshooting their wives, kids, each other, shooting at random, et cetera, will do that to a guy.
One thing to remember: While the Second Amendment grants the right to bear arms, it is always subject to the Federal Police Power.
At this point, I'd say we're ripe for a tightening of the screws, and an exercise of the police power over the flow/distribution/ownership/carrying of handguns. The American gun culture has become absolutely sickening, and it's people like me, responsible gun-owning hunters, who are paying the price.
__________________________________________________
Ben - we're gonna have to agree to disagree on the statistics. Either way, it's obvious that while crime hasn't been eliminated, it surely hasn't skyrocketed either. That's very clear. I just hear people going bananas over all this nutso propaganda email forward (circa 2001)that it's become so bad in Australia, blah blah blah. The fact still remains thatyou're still five times more likely to get murdered right here in the good ol' U.S.A.
So, I'll agree that while Gun Control hasn't REDUCED crime on a large scale in Australia, it surely hasn't INCREASED it either. Anyone who has actually set down and looked up the statistics knows that this is true. You know it and I know it. It was a wash, but it took a lot of guns off the street. We also know that it had no effect on hunting, either.
Gun advocates always lump gun control in with hunting, which are two totally unrelated items, as proven in Australia.
04-26-2007, 03:37 PM
#50
Boone & Crockett
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Comance county, OK
Posts: 11,381
RE: Gun Control Down Under
"Thanks falcon for the link. It just boggles my minde that people would buy into the tripe Michael A. Bellesiles is pushing. One only needs to think back to High school history class."
This Bellisidesguy stinks to high heaven. Hedeliberately misquoted a quoted a regulatory document. He cited the San Francisco archives. Only problem was that the San Francisco archives were destroyed in the quake and fire of 1906. The publisher quit printing the book after the scandal broke. Bellesiles later "revised" his book but the printer refused to print his new edition.Finally some other lesser known publishing company printed the "revised edition" of the book-think it is a vanity press.Realizing that Wikipedia is not the final authority-it does call out some of Bellisiles big lies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Bellesiles
This Bellisidesguy stinks to high heaven. Hedeliberately misquoted a quoted a regulatory document. He cited the San Francisco archives. Only problem was that the San Francisco archives were destroyed in the quake and fire of 1906. The publisher quit printing the book after the scandal broke. Bellesiles later "revised" his book but the printer refused to print his new edition.Finally some other lesser known publishing company printed the "revised edition" of the book-think it is a vanity press.Realizing that Wikipedia is not the final authority-it does call out some of Bellisiles big lies.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_A._Bellesiles
