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3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

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3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

Old 10-22-2005, 01:21 PM
  #1  
Fork Horn
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Default 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

I am a diehard conservative and I love nothing more than kicking radical islamic fundamentalist butt. However,we are not likely to win this thing for 3 fundamental reasons.

1) We don'thave the stomach to win a war anymore.Whenwe used to win wars, we went to war with a nation, including its people. If we had fought WWII like we do today, we would have lost. We wouldhave tried to contain ourfight to the military and spared civilians. We would not have bombed Berlin and we certainly wouldn't have nuked Japan. Today, we pretend that the military is evil and the people are innocent. With the exceptionofa conflict like Kuwait where the militarywe are attacking is foreign, the military of our enemies is made up of the people. the soldiers are the sons of the people. I am not advocating going out to kill every man, woman and child in Iraq. I am simply saying stop the hand wringing over civilians. They are the enemy too. When the nation is crushed into submission, they will then be willing to consider alternatives. They certainly would be so decimated that they would lack the ability to detonate car bombs in our faces!

2) Iraq does not deserve freedom. Freedommust be earned. Any population that would ALLOW itself to be ruled by an evil dictator, deserves to be ruled. Keep in mind that Saddam had no real power. He was not superhuman. His only power rest with the people of Iraq, who comprised the military. They ruled themselves. One of my favorite phrases: Everyone has the government they deserve. One of my other favorites: Who handed the United States its freedom? We did. We died for it, weearned it.

3)Iraq does not want freedom. Do you remember when this thing started? We lied to ourselves and said it was the evil regime that was oppressing a people who wanted to be free. We said the only reason they werent free is because they didnt have the strength to fight the regime. We gave them the strength, we showed them the way, we held their hands.They continue as they have always done.Many, many, many of them want nothing more than the death of all "infidels."

Okay, I lied, I have a fourth reason.Nonation can truly be freewith a population that isIslamic. They CANNOT, WILL NOT, EVER,embrace a democratic government that is not subject to the laws of Islam.Islam+ govermentdoes not equal freedom.

Yes, it isI.
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Old 10-22-2005, 01:58 PM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

Excellent post!!!
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Old 10-22-2005, 05:02 PM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

Let me be the first to welcome you back !!!!

While I don't completelyagree with your analysis, I do tend to agree with the premise.

I am in the process of cooking some prime rib on the grill, and won't likely be able to post an intelligent response untill sometime tomorrow, but I felt compelled to log on long enough to welcome you back onboard.


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Old 10-23-2005, 04:12 AM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

Okay, I lied, I have a fourth reason.Nonation can truly be freewith a population that isIslamic. They CANNOT, WILL NOT, EVER,embrace a democratic government that is not subject to the laws of Islam.Islam+ govermentdoes not equal freedom.

Static, first off good to see you posting again!! Hope it is a regular event.
Of the four reasons you set down, the last is probably the most accurate. Some cultures seem to require more 'Guidance' than others and those willing to follow the teachings of Islam are right at the top of the list. The Iraqi people would quite possibly have welcomed us as conquerors, had we chosen that route, but liberators have no place in the middle eastern physche.
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Old 10-23-2005, 08:37 AM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

Boy! I hardly know where to start here, I see so much flawed thinking.

Firstly, static, your comments fail to accurately reflect the war we are fighting. The Iraq War was won in just two weeks under Tommy Franks. The civilized world is currently involved in a much broader War on Terror and Iraq is just one of the fronts.

Like it or not, support it or not, Americans are going to have to fight this war because our enemy has declared war on us. Bill Clinton ignored OBL's fatwah and 9/11 was the result. If we don't fight our enemy, it will grow bolder and stronger and continue to attack U.S. interests abroad and here.

In response to your points.

1) We don'thave the stomach to win a war anymore.
I think we do. Our Commander in Chief has the will to win and our military has the will to win and so do most Americans. I suggest you go to the WH website and read the speech Bush gave Friday at the Reagan Presidential Library. http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/10/20051021-2.html

static: "I am simply saying stop the hand wringing over civilians. They are the enemy too. When the nation is crushed into submission, they will then be willing to consider alternatives. They certainly would be so decimated that they would lack the ability to detonate car bombs in our faces!"

Again, this statement shows a lack of understanding as to what is going on in Iraq. Fourteen of eighteen provinces are basically peaceful. Most of the trouble is in the Sunni Triangle and it's caused by former Bathists and foreign fighters. If the jihadists weren't attacking America there, they would be somewhere else doing the same. To my way of thinking, we are going to fight them somewhere-- it might as well be Iraq.

Your comments ignore the fact that Iraq has formed a government and a higher percentage of their population voted than we do in our elections. Last week's election was relatively violence free and the polling places were protected by Iraqi security forces, not American. The Iraqis are making progress.

The tone of this entire post smacks of racism, predjudice and the American superiority complex that makes so many resent us. To advocate indiscriminate killing of civilians if they are in the way is totally irresponsible. Like the battle against Communism, this one is as much about winning the hearts and minds of the region as a military victory. That will never happen if we are indiscriminately killing civilians. We've never conducted a war like that and won't this one.

Ponder this. 2,000 American heroes have given the ultimate sacrifice in Iraq for our continued freedom. Of these 2,000 mothers, we have ONE Cindy Sheehan. We shouldn't let the media distort our perception of support for this war.

2) Iraq does not deserve freedom. Freedom must be earned.

While America mourns the deaths of 2,000 soldiers, Iraqis have paid a much higher price. No accurate casualty figures exist, but estimates range to 30,000 since the actual war ended. Our military released no body count during the two-week war, I suspect because it would have been so great that it likely might have turned world opinion against us.

Since the fall of Saddam mass graves containing 300,000 Iraqi citizens have been uncovered. I doubt most Americans can envision living under such an authoritarian rule and also doubt that too many would be much braver than the Iraqis if their neighborhood were filled with spies and a mere rumor of being unloyal could result the the rape, maiming, imprisonment or murder of your family.

The Iraqis also fought an 8-year war with Iran under Saddam. Most Iraqis had no interest in fighting this war, but had no choice. They were also surrogate fighters for the U.S. Since we viewed Iran as an enemy. Our government supplied financial aid and intelligence to Saddam and he was encouraged to fight on. An estimated 1.7 million were killed in this war. It was one of the ugliest wars I've witnessed.

No body counts are available on the Gulf War, but they were significant as well.

To say the Iraqis have made no sacrifices, is to be out of touch with history.

3) Iraq does not want freedom.

This statement seems to ignore that the Iraqis have elected a parliament and voted on a constitution. And a higher percentage of Iraqis vote than Americans despite death threats if they do.

I don't pretend to fully understand the Muslim culture, but since 9/11, I have at least made an effort to read and understand the mindset of those who harbor so much hate for us.

Another force that most Americans fail to understand is the political dynamics of tribalism in that region. Many predicted a civil war among the tribes after Saddam's fall. That didn't happen. Instead clerics urged calm and embraced democracy and the Iraqis are responding.

The evolving democracies in Afghanistan and Iraq won't be mirror images of ours, but they will be democracies and hopefully an incubator for freedom and peace in the region. Islam does not regard women as equals to men, yet the governments of both Afghanistan and Iraq have given them the right to vote. Something that America didn't do for 160 years.

Democracies seldom commit atrocities and start wars while despot dictatorships are safe havens for terrorists and use them as surrogate fighters against U.S. interests. Our Commander in Chief understands this and has the vision and backbone to stay the course.

I hope he never succumbs to the line of thinking portayed in this post.
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Old 10-23-2005, 09:27 AM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail



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Old 10-23-2005, 09:34 AM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

Underdog Just what is your role in the Bush administration?
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Old 10-23-2005, 09:51 AM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

A lot of good points on both sides. My main thought here is that only time will tell how this will all turn out. Regardless though, I think this was a war that had to be fought and I think that trying to establish a democrocy in the middle east is something that must be attempted and I salute G.W and the troops for taking on a job that the rest of the world(mostly), did not have the guts to undertake. This could go either way but I am behind the president in this effort. I believe that he has the will to win.

Good to here from you Static and again you make some very good points. To me the glass is usually half full so I hope your wrong.
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Old 10-23-2005, 10:00 AM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

ORIGINAL: bawanajim

Underdog Just what is your role in the Bush administration?
I wanted to be Sec. of Interior so I could hunt and fish on the NWR's and parks, but the ******* passed over me for Gale Norton.
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Old 10-23-2005, 11:28 AM
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Default RE: 3 reasons why the war in Iraq will fail

Oh good now Potusa is a *******.[]
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