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What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

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What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

Old 10-10-2005, 12:00 AM
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Default What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

I was awake and thinking about this. We often throw this term (and many others) around without always defining exactly what it means. One could say it's a partisan term but that would likely describe most Americans who have any particular set of beliefs and values. Although many people claim they are liberals, do they truly match your description of what an email is? Here's part of mine:

For me, a liberal is somebody who argues things like "separation of church and state" as though this was a constituional concept when it was really a phrase coined by a SC Justice who wrote an opinion dealing with this concept. The 1st amendment states:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.
Liberal people take this right given us in the Bill of Rights and "interpret" it to mean that congress cannot have anything to do with a religion at all. This exclusion (or separation) includes not allowing schoolkids to say the Pledge of Allegiance with the words "Under God" in it, have the 10 Commandments posted in front of a courthouse or public building or basically have any other connection or recognition of religion. Many non-liberals argue that this amendment really means congress shouldn't establish a state religion, such as the Church of England was sponsored in England during our revolution. Non-liberals believe the above restrictions and the phrase "separation of church and state" went beyond the founders intent and should not be allowed or legal.

Liberals also seem to think the 1st amendment's freedom of speech only applies to speech (or text) that they authorize or approve of and not to anybody's speech who dissents from their mantra.

A liberal also believes that the 2nd amendment
"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,
the right of the people to keep and bear Arms shall not be infringed.
"
does not refer to an individual right but only a collective right for various National Guard units. These are frequently the same people who believe that guns cause crime and the proper way to reduce crime is to reduce gun ownership.

Strangely enough, no liberals seem to argue about the 3rd amendment (see below) or that maybe the 2nd amendment was also adopted to help enforce the 3rd amendment, etc.
No Soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the Owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law.
Liberals are always concerned about the 4th amendment (see below).
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Liberals rail about how government is corrupt, in a conspiracy to steal their rights and how Patriot Act provisions violate this amendment, specifically article 213 (see below for partial liberal mantra). Liberals seldom mention how the government is still required to appear before a judge to get the search warrant. Or that the actions the government takes still come under the scrutiny of the government. Are there issues to correct with the Patriot Act? Of course. However, Liberals cloud the issue with many false and/or misleading statements.
One of the most dangerous parts of the Patriotic Act is Section 213 which allows for delayed notification of search warrants. Under the fourth amendment, the government needs a search warrant to search and seize anything from your residence or business. They notify you of this warrant usually when they knock on your door and enter your house. However, under the patriot act the government can delay notification of the search warrant if they find probable cause that adverse consequences would occur if the suspect was aware of the search warrant. This means your residence or business or just you can be searched without notification. This part of the Patriotic Act has also led to the detainment of suspects under investigation for indefinite amounts of time. Though a judge would set the amount of time a suspect would remain in custody, the investigators have the ability to return to that judge and continue the investigation, thus keeping the person in detainment for even longer.
http://www.askquestions.org/details.php?id=23

And then Liberals quote a specific part of the 5th amendment (the right not to be a witness against themselves) and then frequently violate that right while advertising or articulating their ignorance.
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offence to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
as you can see, many people who claim they are liberal do not meet such a definition according to my description. Many leftists will read only part of this post and then think I'm somehow biased, a liberal hater, etc. This is only a partial explanation of what I consider liberal. What are some of your criteria??
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Old 10-10-2005, 03:57 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

Originally I believe most Liberals were individuals that thought some laws were too strict and should be applied less frequently or less forcibly. They may well have considered themselves to be upright christians applying the teachings of the Bible and therefore on a mission from God. Carrie Nation comes to mind with her merry band of hatchet wielding sisters attempting to get prohibition set in place. Susan B. Anthony is another of the originals of the not so distant past. Today, I believe, the label should be changed from Liberal to Socialist. Most of the people that term themselves liberal, if they were able to obtain an absolute position of authority, would have the constitution burned and their own brand of government in place. Personal liberty would be a thing of the past except for the annointed.
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Old 10-10-2005, 06:09 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

That was a pretty good assessment that you put up, Cal.

To me, liberals are those who stand on values and beliefs like a weed stands in the wind. The "if it feels good, do it" crowd. Those who think that the principles set forth by our founding fathers just 200 short years ago are out-dated, and those who think that we cannot effectively govern ourselves and should look to "progressive" Europe for guidance.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:16 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

The way I see it, there are two kinds of liberals. Political liberals and true liberals. Political liberals simply fall in with the political beliefs on the left side of the fence. The irony of the whole thing is that the root of liberal is liberty, which is synonymous freedom. As we all know there are a great many freedoms that political liberals would love to take away.

The second kind of liberal is the dictionary definition of liberal, which is what I am. As long as you're not hurting anyone else, do whatever you want. Own guns, pray in school, say what you want, marry who you want, I don't care, it's none of my business. However, should someone decide to exercise a freedom that interferes with my own personal well being, then we have a problem.

I find that there are a great many people on both sides of the line who want to severely limit personal freedom. If both sides got their way at the same time, we wouldn't be able to do anything at all.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:25 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

As long as you're not hurting anyone else, do whatever you want. Own guns, pray in school, say what you want, marry who you want, I don't care, it's none of my business. However, should someone decide to exercise a freedom that interferes with my own personal well being, then we have a problem.
Aught-Six, is that you?!?! [8D]
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:35 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

ORIGINAL: etothepii

As long as you're not hurting anyone else, do whatever you want. Own guns, pray in school, say what you want, marry who you want, I don't care, it's none of my business. However, should someone decide to exercise a freedom that interferes with my own personal well being, then we have a problem.
Aught-Six, is that you?!?! [8D]
Nope, I assure you, I'm just the new guy.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:56 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

I think liberalism is a philosophy based on intentions, guilt, class envy/warfare and a total defiance of human nature. From these you get: "From each according to his ability, to each according to his need."

Many countries have tried this and are failing miserably. There are several counties in Europe that are disasters right now because of it. Instead of changing course, they think that only intensifying these ideals is the answer. Yet, they keep failing.

The way I see it, both political parties in this country are moving us toward the same thing. Why we want to copy a failed system is beyond my comprehension.

I'd love to hear from david m and North Texan. Maybe they could open my eyes to something I've never seen.

VTHunter 1980: You sound like a Liberaterian.
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Old 10-10-2005, 07:59 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

Liberal = socialist/communist .
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:04 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

ORIGINAL: NCOutdoors
VTHunter 1980: You sound like a Liberaterian.
I agree with most of what the Libertarians have to say. Although I think the removal of too many environmental regulations would be a disaster. That's my tree hugger side shining through
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Old 10-10-2005, 08:14 AM
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Default RE: What Does Being Liberal Mean To You???

A liberal wants the government to solve all problems. A liberal wants the government to indemnify all risks -- hurricanes, floods, fires. A liberal wants an infinite number of second chances. A liberal thinks human beings are naturally good.

I don't want government involved solving all problems. I believe that government is an inefficient spender of money and that government grows arrogant and overbearing as it grows larger. I think human beings naturally are dominated by their passions and welcome stern threats -- incarceration and death penalties -- that keep those passions in check. I like second chances, too, but think we ought to make the most out of our chances now because we don't know whether a second chance is forthcoming.

I don't know why liberals are anti-gun. Gun ownership is a civil liberty, and the second amendment is in place to protect the freedom of the little guy to own guns against the government and/or elites suppressing that freedom.
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