Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
05-25-2008, 07:20 AM
#1721
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,175
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
yep guys theres not much we can do about it, we all know the old saing "if you want to play you got to pay"
ORIGINAL: fire3517
yep guys theres not much we can doabout it,we all know the old saing "if you want to play you got to pay"
yep guys theres not much we can doabout it,we all know the old saing "if you want to play you got to pay"
much cheaper that way.ive chose to hunt maine for different critters this year and that is a 6 hours drive away instead of 36 hours. if you complain enough and the bookings drop enough maybe prices will come down in other areas to make up for fuel costs. what i cant understand is if the herd is growing and causing damage by eating up the tundra i could never understand the tag prices. they should be giving them away.the local economy would benefit along with all the other stops along that 36 hour drive. 
05-28-2008, 10:52 AM
#1722
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 460
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
Remember - the natives make the call via council on the # of tags - there are meeting this August to talk about this. What I understand is there may be some rules on sex - possibly to have 1 bull and 2 cow tags moving forward. They are concerned about the resident tags as the # available is high, but the usage ofthe tags is low and they are worried that if usage goes up is coulddamage the heard. My issues is if I look at residentutilization of the available tags the #is low compared toregistered sportsman - and it is declining year to year.
Lodges are also taking beating on the costs - look atMirage wanting to sell while themonies are still somwhat high - theyhave taken a 21% hit to the bottom line last year due to the dollar and fuelcosts. Increase in the tags will also help this quite a bit and put more $$$ in the natives pockets -soI am hoping for a decision. Whether they can getall the committees for each areas together in agreement is reallythe question. A couple of bad years will do it I am sure - there living comes from the use ofthese resources and it will not takelong to feel theeffect of us not spending our cash on goods, services and taxes.
Lodges are also taking beating on the costs - look atMirage wanting to sell while themonies are still somwhat high - theyhave taken a 21% hit to the bottom line last year due to the dollar and fuelcosts. Increase in the tags will also help this quite a bit and put more $$$ in the natives pockets -soI am hoping for a decision. Whether they can getall the committees for each areas together in agreement is reallythe question. A couple of bad years will do it I am sure - there living comes from the use ofthese resources and it will not takelong to feel theeffect of us not spending our cash on goods, services and taxes.
05-29-2008, 08:22 AM
#1723
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: James Bay Frontier, Ont. Canada
Posts: 337
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
In the province of Quebec they make their own rules regarding their province, just like each state has different game laws and seasons. You're talking about the number of tags in Quebec...yes they're the ones that regulate that and the number of animals to be taken on a license. I also have heard because the way the migration has changed and the increase in the herds, that the limit of animals will go from 2 to 3. What they will be...I don't know...all cows, all bulls, etc. Right now you're allowed 2 caribou, male or female, it doesn't matter.But as far as the number of tags that are issued to outfitters, there has never been a limit on the tagsthat they can issue to non-resident hunters for caribou.
As far as the resident draw for tags,that is limited. I don't know where your information about residents not using the tags came from, but I know a lot of hunters there and it's hard for them to get a tag. I wouldn't say there was an abundance of them. And as far as the tags being used when they do get one, the percentage is pretty close to 100%. I hunt with these guys all the time and when they draw a tag they use it. The way it works, unless it changed this year, is if you draw a tag then you can invite one buddy to go with you and he is also provided a tag. And without a change in theActby theQuebec Parliment, that's not going to change no matter what the Natives want.
As far as taxes in Canada, there are two. PST (provincial sales tax) and GST (Federal tax). The GST does not go to the Natives or the Province of Quebec. So no matter what you spend in the way of Goods and Services Tax (GST) it goes to the Federal Government. It has nothing to do with the Natives or Quebec. What Quebec keeps is the Provincial Tax.
In my opinion the way migration has changed and the fact that by the first week in December, non-resident hunters are pretty well out of luck unless you go by chopper or 100 miles by snowmobile. Which neither I want to do. The hunts already too expensive. The outfitters like the Mirage and the rest just keep going up and up in price each year. Whether that's due to the lack of hunters not coming back or the fact that the Caribou are not there later in the season, I don't know. We have lotsof Caribou here in Ontario with no open season. Go figure that one!! In an hour or so'sdrive I'm in Quebec.10 more and I can hunt Caribou. And I'm finding it expensive so I can imagine what you guys feel like. But I was there from the start and the price increases are getting to me as well.
I have had a dramatic increase in non-resident bear and moose hunters in the last couple of years. And a few have said, "we use to hunt caribou, now we're hunting moose". And some are not just Quebec hunters.
Good luck to anybody who goes this year and I hope the herds cooperate.
As far as the resident draw for tags,that is limited. I don't know where your information about residents not using the tags came from, but I know a lot of hunters there and it's hard for them to get a tag. I wouldn't say there was an abundance of them. And as far as the tags being used when they do get one, the percentage is pretty close to 100%. I hunt with these guys all the time and when they draw a tag they use it. The way it works, unless it changed this year, is if you draw a tag then you can invite one buddy to go with you and he is also provided a tag. And without a change in theActby theQuebec Parliment, that's not going to change no matter what the Natives want.
As far as taxes in Canada, there are two. PST (provincial sales tax) and GST (Federal tax). The GST does not go to the Natives or the Province of Quebec. So no matter what you spend in the way of Goods and Services Tax (GST) it goes to the Federal Government. It has nothing to do with the Natives or Quebec. What Quebec keeps is the Provincial Tax.
In my opinion the way migration has changed and the fact that by the first week in December, non-resident hunters are pretty well out of luck unless you go by chopper or 100 miles by snowmobile. Which neither I want to do. The hunts already too expensive. The outfitters like the Mirage and the rest just keep going up and up in price each year. Whether that's due to the lack of hunters not coming back or the fact that the Caribou are not there later in the season, I don't know. We have lotsof Caribou here in Ontario with no open season. Go figure that one!! In an hour or so'sdrive I'm in Quebec.10 more and I can hunt Caribou. And I'm finding it expensive so I can imagine what you guys feel like. But I was there from the start and the price increases are getting to me as well.
I have had a dramatic increase in non-resident bear and moose hunters in the last couple of years. And a few have said, "we use to hunt caribou, now we're hunting moose". And some are not just Quebec hunters.
Good luck to anybody who goes this year and I hope the herds cooperate.
05-29-2008, 11:01 AM
#1724
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 460
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
Just to be clear in the topics here:
The # of tags per hunter and sex is determined by natives in conjunction with the conservation office and is based on predicted # of hunters that will come and available resources that are present.
So -in terms of the resident tags, the numbers that they expect topurchase tags has been dropping year to year = lack on interest = so why areyou complainingthe # of caribou allowed is not enough. This is the point.
"As far as the resident draw for tags,that is limited"
8 tags available for residents (yes 2 are lottery) and 2 for non-residents.
"But as far as the number of tags that are issued to outfitters, there has never been a limit on the tagsthat they can issue to non-resident hunters for caribou."
Right - and I neversaid there was, only an allotment based onthelogic of what your lodge can service.
I don't know where your information about residents not using the tags came from...
This information is open to the public - but the real information comes from the fish cops and natives who are seeign what is happening. If you think that by considering the # of tags issues vs use will indicate anything I would say this data would indicate only a good use of personal cash when buying tags (by the way the # tags sold vs checked is around 92% which means the balance are not taken or not checked or mistakes collecting the data).
All hunting in the James Bay areas is regulated by the Inuit - done with input from the conservation guys, but the treaties dictate much of the resources us in this area. This is why a native fish cop must be on duty at all check stations during the season - it isa requriement ofthe native.You would be surprised how little control the PQC has over this area. How many speed traps have you seen onthe JBR, or mounties patroling the areas - zero.
You are partlywrong about the taxes, but right about the GST - this funds your health care as well as the too many to mention social programs that the liberals have mandated over the years uncontrolled - none of my business but it is what it is. The PST is what helps fund the James Bay Area and its people. The natives are funded by the taxes and revenues produced from these areas. THe natives are afforded these rights for the use of the land. Otherwise, I would buy 100 arces along the TTR and not need an outfitter. These areascannot even be logged without Inuit approval, and theycan use theland for what ever they want, anytime.
Just wanted to make some counter-points on this feedback, life is good - we can still hunt and lucky we also are free to have these conversations.
The # of tags per hunter and sex is determined by natives in conjunction with the conservation office and is based on predicted # of hunters that will come and available resources that are present.
So -in terms of the resident tags, the numbers that they expect topurchase tags has been dropping year to year = lack on interest = so why areyou complainingthe # of caribou allowed is not enough. This is the point.
"As far as the resident draw for tags,that is limited"
8 tags available for residents (yes 2 are lottery) and 2 for non-residents.
"But as far as the number of tags that are issued to outfitters, there has never been a limit on the tagsthat they can issue to non-resident hunters for caribou."
Right - and I neversaid there was, only an allotment based onthelogic of what your lodge can service.
I don't know where your information about residents not using the tags came from...
This information is open to the public - but the real information comes from the fish cops and natives who are seeign what is happening. If you think that by considering the # of tags issues vs use will indicate anything I would say this data would indicate only a good use of personal cash when buying tags (by the way the # tags sold vs checked is around 92% which means the balance are not taken or not checked or mistakes collecting the data).
All hunting in the James Bay areas is regulated by the Inuit - done with input from the conservation guys, but the treaties dictate much of the resources us in this area. This is why a native fish cop must be on duty at all check stations during the season - it isa requriement ofthe native.You would be surprised how little control the PQC has over this area. How many speed traps have you seen onthe JBR, or mounties patroling the areas - zero.
You are partlywrong about the taxes, but right about the GST - this funds your health care as well as the too many to mention social programs that the liberals have mandated over the years uncontrolled - none of my business but it is what it is. The PST is what helps fund the James Bay Area and its people. The natives are funded by the taxes and revenues produced from these areas. THe natives are afforded these rights for the use of the land. Otherwise, I would buy 100 arces along the TTR and not need an outfitter. These areascannot even be logged without Inuit approval, and theycan use theland for what ever they want, anytime.
Just wanted to make some counter-points on this feedback, life is good - we can still hunt and lucky we also are free to have these conversations.
05-31-2008, 02:46 PM
#1725
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: James Bay Frontier, Ont. Canada
Posts: 337
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on some points. We all have opinions. And yeah you are right...we're free to voice our opinions.
And yes my friend "life is good". I have no complaints at all!! I have 8 freezers running here as well as a 12 ft. walk-in. And in them I have...
Rainbow trout, speckled trout, lake trout, pickerel, pike and some splake, with moose, bear, deer, elk (from Colorado, brought by some of my guests), caribou,grouse and geese. Heck..I may even have to break down and buy some beef, chicken and pork!! LOL. So I'm not one to complain.
And yes my friend "life is good". I have no complaints at all!! I have 8 freezers running here as well as a 12 ft. walk-in. And in them I have...
Rainbow trout, speckled trout, lake trout, pickerel, pike and some splake, with moose, bear, deer, elk (from Colorado, brought by some of my guests), caribou,grouse and geese. Heck..I may even have to break down and buy some beef, chicken and pork!! LOL. So I'm not one to complain.
06-01-2008, 02:54 AM
#1726
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Montrose, Michigan
Posts: 102
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
Darksides55 I am curious about the tag issue you said they might up the tags to three tags this year but still unknown on wich sex you may take? Is this for residents or the guys coming up to the lodges. I'm going to the mirage this November probally for my last trip for a while been going there for 5 years now and heard about this possibillity earlier in this forum also, just cant afford going anymore with prices really rising each year.
06-01-2008, 05:28 PM
#1727
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Butler County Pa.
Posts: 46
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
Has anyone ever STAYED OVERNIGHTat KM 381 ?? I have been there many times for fuel at to eat andCheck in Caribou,but never stayed overnight . are they seperate rooms or a bunkhouse type of accomadations?? Do I need Reservations ??
06-02-2008, 07:10 AM
#1728
Fork Horn
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: James Bay Frontier, Ont. Canada
Posts: 337
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
Fire3517.....If they do up the limit of caribou from 2 to 3, it will be across the board..resident and non-resident. But so far this is all talk, nothing definite.
Dave2pa.....381 is similar to bunkhouse. Each room is double occupancy and public washrooms in the middle of the building. Washrooms are co-ed! In other words they are just big double wide trailers broken into bedrooms with washrooms in the middle. I've stayed there often. They have a decent restaurant. Yes you need a reservation...call ahead. During the hunt they are extremely busy with hunters coming and going.
Dave2pa.....381 is similar to bunkhouse. Each room is double occupancy and public washrooms in the middle of the building. Washrooms are co-ed! In other words they are just big double wide trailers broken into bedrooms with washrooms in the middle. I've stayed there often. They have a decent restaurant. Yes you need a reservation...call ahead. During the hunt they are extremely busy with hunters coming and going.
06-02-2008, 10:46 AM
#1729
Fork Horn
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 460
RE: Quebec Winter Caribou Hunting
K381 is not bad - clean and as DS says the food is OK. Our strategy has always been to stay @ K381 and leave ~ 1300hrs to get to the zone by early/mid morning. This we get our tags and get into the field that firstdayto get use ofthe full 4 days. We just suitup in anopen roomas usually house keeping is not done getting them ready.
We are also considering goinginto Raddison and becloserto the zonefor that early drive. More miles on day 1 but the hotels are betterandthe same cost as K381, which is $$ for what you get - I think ~ 98 $CAN last year fora doubleroom.
In case anyone is interested in the laws and treaties, the following link will bring you to the site. The latest report on the JBNQA and NEQA is interesting - page # 9 under hunting fishing and trapping explain how a joint committee of Native Experts (all 3 tribes), Fish Cops are scientist regulate the limits and seasons. You can also see the monies that are given to the tribes each year and how they are given and ID card that allows them to draw $ like and debit card. The next meeting on the bag limit/sex question is set for August and will be in affect for the fall and winter hunt - if the 1 of either sex gets in it is sure to piss off the fall hunters quite a bit and I would hope the vote to go to the winter hunt only for sexes.
Happy Reading - it is interesting and gives you a perspetive on the treaties, etc:
http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/index-eng.asp
We are also considering goinginto Raddison and becloserto the zonefor that early drive. More miles on day 1 but the hotels are betterandthe same cost as K381, which is $$ for what you get - I think ~ 98 $CAN last year fora doubleroom.
In case anyone is interested in the laws and treaties, the following link will bring you to the site. The latest report on the JBNQA and NEQA is interesting - page # 9 under hunting fishing and trapping explain how a joint committee of Native Experts (all 3 tribes), Fish Cops are scientist regulate the limits and seasons. You can also see the monies that are given to the tribes each year and how they are given and ID card that allows them to draw $ like and debit card. The next meeting on the bag limit/sex question is set for August and will be in affect for the fall and winter hunt - if the 1 of either sex gets in it is sure to piss off the fall hunters quite a bit and I would hope the vote to go to the winter hunt only for sexes.
Happy Reading - it is interesting and gives you a perspetive on the treaties, etc:
http://www.ainc-inac.gc.ca/index-eng.asp