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Scope Issue - Looking for help

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Old 09-05-2019, 06:29 AM
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Default Scope Issue - Looking for help

Hey Guys,

Running into a problem Ive never had before. I have been trying to zero my CVA Wolf for months now. Generally it only takes me a few shots to zero a firearm, but I just cannot get this to zero.

I have tried hard sights, 3 red dotread vortex diamondback 3-9x40, and now a traditions muzzleloader scope. Everytime it seems I am getting some consistency it all disappears.

Currently at 25 yards I am getting extremely tight groups about 6 inches low, 3 inches left. I just wanted to adjust up, but I went maybe 24 clicks + (1/4 @ 100 yards), no movement up.

Any ideas why this may be and how to fix the issue? When I reached out to CVA they told me to use different powder and sabots. To confirm I have tried many different bullets and powders, loose and pellets. Same issues. Currently using Hornady SSTs and Triple 7 loose powder at 100 grains like CVA recommended.

All suggestions welcome.

Thank you
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Old 09-24-2019, 12:50 PM
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I'd suspicion the scope.
24 clicks and no movement of impact is a sign of non-responsive equipment.
Does your Wolf wear a rynite stock by chance?
I will tell you that your load of 100 gr. of 777 is a stout charge by any rifle's standards. Recommended by CVA or not!
Do you realize that the charge you're using is equivalent to approximately 115 gr. of black powder.
That scope has probably been shell-shocked!
My suggestion is to back your load down to 80 gr. and mount up a fixed 4X scope and head back to the range.
Take it easy, man. A .50 caliber bullet doesn't need to be moving at Mach 2 to kill a deer.
Here's a story, it may entertain you, it may not, but it's true ...
This was accomplished with a rifle that my brother had bought off of Craigslist for $45 and I gave him 50 since he didn't hunt.
I had loaded the Traditions Pursuit the week prior with 80 gr. 777 behind a 270 gr. Powerbelt and took it hunting. I did not fire it since no game appeared.
Upon returning home to load bench I notice that I had zeroed scope with 90 gr. 777.
I knew it was gonna shoot different but did not know to what degree. Well, I hunted from 6:30 AM to around 9:30 having jumped a small doe that used the downhill terrain to make a quick exit. I decided to watch a nearby clear cut right-of-way.
Went and stood on a power line cut with the sun to my back and waited maybe 35-45 minutes when this old buck started up the hill in front of me.
As he entered my shooting lane at around 50 yds. I held center of body above front leg. The shot rang out and he ran as if unhurt, as they always do,
but when he went in the woods on the far side I could just make out an interruption to his gait.
Just inside the woods he faltered and I could only barely see a twitching white tail but it wasn't changing location. I felt somewhat assured with that.
When I got to where he had stood when I shot I found a patch of white deer hair and a good bit of blood. Upon following the bloodtrail it was evident that he was hit hard.
I got to the buck about 40 yds. later and was concerned with his size because I'm not too big and he clearly weighed more than I did.
After field-dressing with more difficulty than I normally experience with the normal size deer I usually kill I found the bullet had dropped from line of sight about 8" and luckily passed thru the lower region of the heart.
I took my time dragging the deer, careful not to overexert myself.
A few years back we lost a friend of the family at the young age of 46 after suffering a heart attack while dragging his game from the woods.
This thought kept nagging me every time I tired from the resistance of the deer during the drag. I took frequent breaks to catch my breath and then start fresh to continue the approximate 350 yds. over rough terrain to the logging road where I could get my vehicle near my trophy. When I got him to the truck I tied him to the hitch and slowly drove to a field where I met the landowner who I had called and he met me with his backhoe. I pulled the buck into the bucket and he raised it above the tailgate of my Chevy Tahoe while I pulled it into the cargo space. It made the loading very easy.
I don't know the exact weight of that deer, but when I dropped him at the processing room there were 156 deer ahead of me and among them all I only saw one that was equal in size to mine.
It was #157.
That's the story... and I'm stickin' to it.
P.S. That heart was the size of a grapefruit!
Attached Thumbnails Scope Issue - Looking for help-buck-shot-2sm.jpg  
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Old 09-24-2019, 03:23 PM
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here is a thought
I won't mention brand name
but I had a higher end inline muzzloader, and had accuracy issues, , I went thru a few hundred bucks in different loads/sabots, powders, and a fe GRAND in different scopes, it just wouldn;t shoot well consistently!
gun went back to maker, they re barreled it, came back shooting worse, they blamed all sorts of things in which were replaced with new one's
from stock up, went back to factory again, they put a third barrel on it, sent it back to be with a test target of a 4.5 inch group at 50 yards and told me it shoots great for them ??
I DON"T call a 4.5 inch group at 50 yards good, maybe that's me??
found it rather wrong of them to say that is good, but at same thing thing they were just as frustrated as me trying to figure out what was wrong with this giun!

next step was take gun to a custom rifle builder and have them do a once over and try to make it shoot
I have other inline's, but for me this was sort of quest to try and find out WHY it shot so poorly at random!
I went thru 5-6 different scopes and scope mounts, breech plugs, had barrel bores lapped, re crowned, , trigger jobs done, , about everything under the sun, and the gun just wouldn;l shoot well, with me or the 25+ others that tried!
after a LOT of money down the drain, and a a good 2+ yrs of trying things!

I sold the gun CHEAP , story told of its issues' along with lots of paperwork from maker at what they tried, did, and other gun smiths tired and did to it!
it went with 3 extra barrels and a whole tool box of NEW extra parts, data on loads and more info than you could imagine!! LOL

IMO< some guns, just have issues, that NO logic can explain, seems odd as there just parts, but, for what ever reason/s
this inline was NEVER able to hold a nice group consistently no matter what was done to it period, no expense was spared too!

SO< before going too deep in spending trying things, Maybe just upgrade LOL
best of luck to you
things I would suggest trying first, check, breech plug is good, if gun pivots, make sure pivot pin is tight, stock mount screws tight and re torqued to same spec's
make sure your loading things consistently, as IMO this is a #1 reason many struggle to get better groups with inlines,
and use a consistent cleaning of things when testing loads!

make sure scope mounts are tight too
best of luck!
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Old 09-24-2019, 04:25 PM
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That's a dandy of a buck gemi!

-Jake
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Old 10-29-2019, 10:05 AM
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Thanks, Jake, they usually don't get that big around here. Too much pressure!
I shoot almost every deer that gets into range but once in a while, I get lucky!
Here's a new project I'm working on... although I'll be using a 20" barrel that wears a Weaver 1.5-5x20 scope
Attached Thumbnails Scope Issue - Looking for help-baby-muzzleloader-sm.jpg  

Last edited by gemihur; 10-29-2019 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 11:53 AM
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Everytime it seems I am getting some consistency it all disappears.
How long are you waiting between shots?
Are you swabbing between shots with Triple7 and what are you using to swab with?

Its not uncommon for a ML to shoot a few shots well and then it all goes to hell because the barrel got warm. If the barrel is warm to the touch its too warm for sabots. Let it cool for several minute before loading again.

Triple7 pretty much requires swabbing between shots if you hope to load another sabot to the same spot as you loaded the first. It creates a crud ring where the sabot and powder meet. Plain old Windex works fine for a swabbing solution followed by a dry patch.

Last edited by Gm54-120; 10-29-2019 at 11:57 AM.
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Old 10-29-2019, 03:04 PM
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Originally Posted by TheRelentlessHunter View Post
Hey Guys,

Currently at 25 yards I am getting extremely tight groups about 6 inches low, 3 inches left. I just wanted to adjust up, but I went maybe 24 clicks + (1/4 @ 100 yards), no movement up.
This seems like a scope problem of some sort. Not saying yours is cheap cause you don't indicate what brand it is but I stopped purchasing cheap scopes on my hunting rifles. I only use Leupold. All of my Leupolds move exactly the distance they are supposed to when I make adjustments. Cheap scopes clickers seem to have a mind of their own. One time 4 clicks is an inch and next time its 4 inches.

I have a CVA optima that would not group better than 3-4" at 100 yards with pellets. Tried all kinds of bullets and sabots to no avail. I switched to Blackhorn 209 powder and got the Blackhorn breach plug for the CVA and its a much better shooter now. 1-2" groups at 100yds. My go to deer load is 100g (by volume) Blackhorn and a 240g XTP Mag with crushrib sabot. Took 3 deer last year with that load.

When I check my gun for accuracy I do it with a fouled barrel. I always shoot one shot thru the gun before checking accuracy. I also hunt with a fouled barrel. My gun shoots much more consistently after the barrel has been fouled with a shot or two. With Blackhorn, corrosion and loading difficulty are not a problem. It doesn't foul the way pellets and other black powders do. I love the stuff. Wont use anything else.
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