Vortex Vulture Versus Bushnell Marine Binos
 

I went bear hunting in a tree stand the other night (first time hunting in a tree stand). About 23 minutes after legal sunset (we can hunt up to 30 minutes after legal sunset), I saw a young buck but couldn't see if he was a forked horn or not. I used my binos (Swarovski 7x30) and still couldn't say for sure.

The Swaros are awesome binos but they obviously reached their design limitations under those conditions. Now I'm on a quest to find a better low light binocular. I've been researching larger diameter binos that are designed for better low light performance and am strongly considering The Vortex Vulture 8 x 56 and the Bushnell Marine 7 x 50.

So far, research seems to suggest that the Vortex is a definite jump up in quality. My question is, has anybody used both of these binos at dusk? If so, what did you think? Thanks in advance for any help.

I do not own either of the models you describe but have some pretty nice glass with simular specs as you describe.

In the conditions you describe simply stepping up to a larger objective lens is not going to really get you where you want to go. where these larger objective lens really pay off in the long run is with eye strain. Sure they will draw in more light and yes they will help with clarity and game identification but to what degree? You still have to have ambient light and the conditions you describe you simply do not have enough.

I would say at twillight conditions you would see a remarkable difference in your 7x30 vs any of the larger 50mm+ OBJ. In dusk conditions what you are really seaking is night vision of some sort. Been there done that.

I hear what you're saying about night vision. It would work well but that is prohibited in CA for deer and bear hunting. I probably didn't describe what I'm seeking precisely enough in my OP post.

I could see well enough during the first 15 minutes after sunset. It's that second 15 minutes after sunset that I'm trying to obtain just a little more detail from the binos. I'm not worried about weight or even bulk as I carry the binos in my backpack and am sitting in a treestand on this property that I'm hunting. This is a short distance situation so I'm not worried about the long distance stuff and am not looking for a huge amount of magnification.

I've researched a bit on some optics websites and am noticing that people viewing stars are advised to buy a larger objective bino to see the night sky better. I would love to find a 7x56 but that doesn't appear to be commercially made nowadays. Anyway, thanks for your comments above--they do help.

An issue that creeps up with the 8x50s and 8x56 models that are currently available is field of view. Keep a close eye on FOV specs, because I've seen some 8x50+ models lately with great clarity and light transmission, but an undesirable FOV. If you do go with a larger objective, you'll have to get something with a longer body and more weight because the focal length of some of the mid-size 8x50/56 binos is what makes that FOV issue happen in the first place.

Also realize that most marine binos are going to be fixed focus and you'll be adjusting your eye cups to focus instead of utilizing a center focus knob that controls both eyes. I wouldn't consider any marine bino in the situation you're describing, it's just not designed for it. They are more suitable for, well... boats. You're viewing something on the horizon, or at least at a distance closer to infinty than close range.

You get some significant increase in light transmission with a 50mm or 56mm over 30mm objectives, but as Ed said, you need to have that ambient light available for the increase in transmission to even have an effect on what you see. At 30 minutes after sunset, you're rapidly approaching the point of diminishing returns, and in complete darkness you'll need a set of 70mm objectives to see much of anything in the dark. The guys that utilize binoculars for stargazing are viewing objects that give off light, so it's a slightly different situation. Objective size will only make so much of a difference when you're viewing dark objects in the woods.

I would think that a 42mm ED model with phase-coated prisms and a good FOV would be more desirable than something with a larger objective that's just going to be a tradeoff. The FOV issue is just going to be another tradeoff that will present its own problems, and if you've ever compared two binos with vastly different FOV in daylight, it's noticable. Even more so in the dark.

I'd seriously consider the Bresser Everest 8x42. They're a consistent performer and they might be the best combination for what you're proposing.

Ideally, we'd all like to see a 6 ounce 8x25 compact that will allow us to count hairs on a bear's ass in complete darkness with a 20 degree FOV, but that just isn't possible. You're going to have to compromise on something.

Thanks for the good information. The part about marine binos was especially enlightening. The Bresser Everest binos look very interesting and are very well priced.

I realize I'm looking for that last little bit of optical performance in a very small part of the hunting day--the last 15 minutes. I haven't even brought up high priced versus low priced binoculars although glass quality would also play an important part in the equation. Yes, I'd like to save money like everybody else but in the end, it still has to be something that really works.

They've gained quite a following and you really can't go wrong with them.

Well, as far as price, it's up to you to determine exactly how much you want to invest in glass for that last 15 minutes. Some guys will spend $1k+ for those extra tenths of a percent of light transmission. They're not wrong, they just have the spare change and make the conscious decision to do so because they can. You can't argue with somebody if they're happy.

But light transmission is only part of the equation, and I think you'd still be wanting if you went right for a large objective at the expense of FOV, or any number of other factors. That's all I'm saying.

Good luck regardless, I hope you find something that works well for you. :happy0001:

Quick thought. You said night vision is prohibited, but can you possibly utilize a red light on your scope? I have a red LED flashlight and remote switch on my .22 mag that I use for coyote that's good for up to a hundred yards or so. Not that it's what you're looking for, but if it's legal, it's always an option for visibility at night.

In my part of the state, you can use lights for non-game animals like coyotes. It has to be 9 volt or less and handheld or on your head.

No rifle-mounted lights? That's a drag.

My first real experience with serious glassing was in 1985. My dad and I took a trip to Colorado. We both had a crappy pair of Tasco Binos. This was a guided hunt and our guide had a really nice set of Bausch And Lomb binos. We were Hunting Antelope and our guide spotted a larger group of mature Antelope about 500 yards away. He was calling off widths and heights of antlers. Dad and I looked through our glass and just saw fuzzy looking racks. When the guide let us see through his binos we were very enlightened at the differences we saw.

I learned then I needed to upgrade. I spent several years of trial by error with cheap optics till I finally splurged and bought my first Swarovski's. My eyes have become so accustomed to good glass that looking through cheap glass bothers me. I can really spot the differences in good glass vs bad glass.



As far as good glass goes there becomes a point of diminishing returns. Just to give a for Instance I purchased a pair of Minox BF 8x42 Last year. I did some side by side comparison next to my Swarovski SLC 8x42. I gotta admit the Swarovski gave me a bit and I mean a bit more of everything you want out of a set of binos. But it was just a bit. I am happy and proud to own such a nice set of optics but I must admit there is no way that knowing what I know today that I could turn around and make that purchase again seeing the side by side comparison. The margin of quality in the optics simply does not justify the cost differce of $1500+. Now days I keep the Minox in the day pack and the Swarovskis stay in the cabinet. I will save those for special hunts or western hunts. Not taking a chance on them getting dropped from a stand or stolen from the truck at replacing them would be cost prohibited.

There are so many budjet price Optics out there to choose from in the $200 to $400 range that will hang with the big boys now days it really just comes down to selecting the right tool for the job.

I think OpticsCamp has steered you in the right direction with the Bresser 8x42. By all reports they are top notch glass and should serve you as well as the larger glass you mentioned in the beggining of your post. I agree with what Opticscamp said about diminishing returns and ambient light. When reading about bird watchers and star gazers reviews you have to understand they are reviewing their products from thier point of view and for thier needs. A hunters needs are very different and demands are very different.

I know what you mean about the quality of Swarovskis. I bought an SLC style pair (7x30) somewhere in the late 80's or early 90's. I sent them in for service once and Swarovski replaced them with a new pair made in 1999. I still have that pair. They work really well and I'm spoiled.

Like you, I'd love to find a sweet spot on that quality curve with the newer binos. My Swarovski SLC binos can't compete with the newer Swaro EL's and I don't expect a mid range bino to either. What I am looking for is a mid-range bino that has a bigger objective that my Swaros and can perform in that last 15 minutes of dusk/twilight.

I PM'd a bit with OpticsCamp and he's sending a pair of 8x42's for me to test. I have a deer/bear hunt planned up North next week with a buddy and we'll be able to give them an honest test drive and evaluation. I've got a couple other hunting buddies who will probably want to try them out too.

I know what you mean about stargazers and birdwatchers--they do have a different set of requirements. In the treestand hunting for bear, I carry my binos in a backpack and honestly don't care if they weigh a little more or are bulkier while I'm just sitting in a treestand. For that price point, I'm willing to buy a pair of treestand binos. I've got another buddy who ranches a 1,000 acre cattle ranch surrounded by other cattle ranches and he wants me to go in on treestand hunting for coyotes and bobcats so i know I'll get some good use out of them. :s4:

It's funny that you should mention this cause I ran into one of DFG Wardens at work today while he was going over a case with one of our attorneys. Since the attorney, warden and I all hunt, we naturally took a small break and discussed good deer hunting spots the warden knows and a few hunting regs.

I asked about my understanding of the spotlights for non-game like coyote and he said it was correct--technically you have to either hold the light in your hand or wear it on your head but can't have it mounted on your gun. He then said he thought that was a little CS and in His opinion, wouldn't write somebody for that as they would be holding the rifle AND light in their hands.

It's kind of a "technicality" but I don't like taking those chances even if I do get long with the wardens and know some of them. I figure I can come up with a good way to hold the light in my hand or wear it on my head. :D

Somewhat echoing "edwardCVAmason" .... I have a set of Swarovski 8x40's that are now going on 20 years old. I bought these after a trip to eastern Montana to hunt mule deer where the economy 10x50 binos that I had at the time were just not up to glassing day after day, and trying to pick out details 1000 + yards out. Man my eyes were tired out every day. Thje guide had the top end Ziess. I was stunned at the difference. So ... for Christmas the next eyar my wife surprised me with an 8x40 Swarovski. These Swarovski's have done wonderful. And I ahve no complaints. A couple years later I won a set of Nikon 8X Venturers. Great bino for sure.

Last fall, I had the chance to view through Swarovski's latest top of the line 8x40. Good Lord ... what an improvement. But the MSRP ... wow! Certainly prohibitive for me these days.