bad scope ? how do you tell...
10-21-2007, 08:25 PM
#1
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: G.P. Oregon
Posts: 311
bad scope ? how do you tell...
I have an new england 270 win. its short 3foot long 22 inches of barrel kicks pretty good , my problem is I can not dial it in , I went to the range and used a gun vise shot a lot of shells and never got and consistant results. I would nail 2 to the right then adj and 2 to the left and so on, should I take it to a gunsmith and have it dialed in then go back to the range. I bought the gun used , it shot ok at 50 yds but have not been able to hit good at 100 yards or more. also what kinda range would this shorty have ? any help greatly appreciated.
10-24-2007, 06:33 PM
#3
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 836
RE: bad scope ? how do you tell...
Many questions need answering first:
What kind of scope and how old is it? Did you previously own it or did it come with the gun?
What is the MOA per click of the turrents? When you adjust it does the turrent "click" or is it held by friction?
Have you checked the mounts? What kind are they? Are they solid? Any loose screws? Are the base screws mounted with locktight?
Is the rifle barrel floated?
Does it shoot similarily out of the vise? It is ossible that shooting with the gun locked down in a vise is the causing the problem. Try shooting off sandbags or a lead sled.
How is the trigger? A bad trigger can cause you to flinch and result in flyers.
Do you know ifthe gun shot better in the past?
Are you using factory ammo or handloads?
You call it a "shorty" yet the barrel is 22 inches, which is the standard barrel length for a .270 sporter rifle. Not sure what you mean. A .270 is at least a 400 yard gun, possibly longer if you are Jack O'Connor.
What kind of scope and how old is it? Did you previously own it or did it come with the gun?
What is the MOA per click of the turrents? When you adjust it does the turrent "click" or is it held by friction?
Have you checked the mounts? What kind are they? Are they solid? Any loose screws? Are the base screws mounted with locktight?
Is the rifle barrel floated?
Does it shoot similarily out of the vise? It is ossible that shooting with the gun locked down in a vise is the causing the problem. Try shooting off sandbags or a lead sled.
How is the trigger? A bad trigger can cause you to flinch and result in flyers.
Do you know ifthe gun shot better in the past?
Are you using factory ammo or handloads?
You call it a "shorty" yet the barrel is 22 inches, which is the standard barrel length for a .270 sporter rifle. Not sure what you mean. A .270 is at least a 400 yard gun, possibly longer if you are Jack O'Connor.
10-24-2007, 10:53 PM
#4
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: G.P. Oregon
Posts: 311
RE: bad scope ? how do you tell...
The scope is a bushnell 3x9 , don't know how old it is. It came with the gun.Don't know what moa means it saysone click = 1/4 inchat 100 yards. It clicks whenturn the adjustment.I had dropped it sideways leaning up against my tailgate, when I went to sight it in the scope was cocked off center I turned it and tightened the ring mounts, which were loose. It seems to be mounted very well on a solid base to the barrel don't think the screws were lock tited. Don't know what floated barrel means it has a woo stock. It shot similarly out of the vise but the vise was a plastic set up not real heavy and had to readjust the gun in it every shot.when I just shot it off sand bags it was shooting high at a hundred yards I was hitting a standard paper plate 4 inches high or so but was lossing cocentration as my arm was going numb, must of shot twenty rounds, the guy I bought it from said he was hitting consistent at 300 yards . this was all with 150 grain pointed tip bullets that my boss loads for his 270 he said they were in the middle of the lowest and highest powder recommended. as far as lenght I was lokking at another thread in the gun forum and other people say the barrel is normal it is just a short gun called a handi rifle I guess made for kids to shoot. hope this info helps I am in a learning process at this point just want to know should I take it in and get it sighted in by a gunsmith?
10-25-2007, 07:32 AM
#5
Typical Buck
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Jackson, TN
Posts: 836
RE: bad scope ? how do you tell...
OK - now we're getting somewhere.
MOA is an acroynm for "minute of angle". One minute of angle equates roughly to 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 etc., so 1/4 MOA is .25 inches at 100 yrds. This is the standard adjustment per turrent click for modern riflescopes. If the bullet is hitting 1.5 inches right of your point of aim then you simply move the windage (side) turrent 6 clicks in theindicatedleft(clockwise) direction. If you are 2.25 inches high of point of aim move elevation (top) turrent 9 clicks in the down direction (clockwise), and so on. Clockwise moves the point of impact right and up. From your first note you said that the gun would shoot right of point of impact, adjust the scope left, then shoot left of POI. That makes me suspicious that you are not adjusting the scope correctly. Make sure that your target is a laser-measured 100 yards, shoot a three shot goup, find the center of that 3-shot group, then make the appropriate scope adjustment. Important: use the same ammo when doing this. Thestandard loads for a .270 are 130, 140, and 150 gr. I have used them all with success. I personally favor well constructed 130 gr loads (flatter trajectory) because I use my .270 when expecting longer shots. I have also used 150 gr. loads when woods hunting with complete satisfaction also.
Bushnell makes a wide variety of scopes, some excellent (Elite 3200 and 4200) and some cheap (Sportsman, Banner). The Trophy and Legendmodels arein the middle. It bothers me that you said that youbanged the gun onyour tailgate and knocked it "cocked off center". For this reason I would take it toa gunsmith (since you arenew to this and may not know what to look for) and have the mounts checked for damage and alignment.PersonallyI would disassemble therings and mounts, inspecting them for damage, and remount the scope with locktite.
If the scope is damagedthen you may not be able to tell other than the gun won't hold zero. Theless expensive scopes have reticleassembliesthat are more cheaply constructed than higher quality scopes and they are prone to failure and inability to hold zero. The only fix here is to get it fixed under warranty, which may or may not be possible in your case, or buy another scope.
Note also that shooting scoped rifles in gun vises is hard on scopes. The gun still recoils, but the gun has no where to go, so all the kinetic energy from the shot is transferred to the gun and scope. Cheaply made scopes are more prone to failure in this scenerio. I might suggest shooting with sandbags and wearing recoil protection (I love my PAST recoil shoulder pad - if you don't have access to one just use a folded towel). This is better practice anyway because it more closely mimics shots in actual hunting situations.
Good luck. If you are considering purchasing anothe scope I highly recommend the following, all of which can be purchased on ebay for less than $200.00 each. I own all three and love them. All are bright, fully multi-coated optics, well constructed, and have lifetime warranties.
Nikon Buckmaster 3X9X40
Burris Fullfield II 3X9X40
Bushnell Elite 3200 3X9X40
Mouthcaller
MOA is an acroynm for "minute of angle". One minute of angle equates roughly to 1 inch at 100 yards, 2 inches at 200 etc., so 1/4 MOA is .25 inches at 100 yrds. This is the standard adjustment per turrent click for modern riflescopes. If the bullet is hitting 1.5 inches right of your point of aim then you simply move the windage (side) turrent 6 clicks in theindicatedleft(clockwise) direction. If you are 2.25 inches high of point of aim move elevation (top) turrent 9 clicks in the down direction (clockwise), and so on. Clockwise moves the point of impact right and up. From your first note you said that the gun would shoot right of point of impact, adjust the scope left, then shoot left of POI. That makes me suspicious that you are not adjusting the scope correctly. Make sure that your target is a laser-measured 100 yards, shoot a three shot goup, find the center of that 3-shot group, then make the appropriate scope adjustment. Important: use the same ammo when doing this. Thestandard loads for a .270 are 130, 140, and 150 gr. I have used them all with success. I personally favor well constructed 130 gr loads (flatter trajectory) because I use my .270 when expecting longer shots. I have also used 150 gr. loads when woods hunting with complete satisfaction also.
Bushnell makes a wide variety of scopes, some excellent (Elite 3200 and 4200) and some cheap (Sportsman, Banner). The Trophy and Legendmodels arein the middle. It bothers me that you said that youbanged the gun onyour tailgate and knocked it "cocked off center". For this reason I would take it toa gunsmith (since you arenew to this and may not know what to look for) and have the mounts checked for damage and alignment.PersonallyI would disassemble therings and mounts, inspecting them for damage, and remount the scope with locktite.
If the scope is damagedthen you may not be able to tell other than the gun won't hold zero. Theless expensive scopes have reticleassembliesthat are more cheaply constructed than higher quality scopes and they are prone to failure and inability to hold zero. The only fix here is to get it fixed under warranty, which may or may not be possible in your case, or buy another scope.
Note also that shooting scoped rifles in gun vises is hard on scopes. The gun still recoils, but the gun has no where to go, so all the kinetic energy from the shot is transferred to the gun and scope. Cheaply made scopes are more prone to failure in this scenerio. I might suggest shooting with sandbags and wearing recoil protection (I love my PAST recoil shoulder pad - if you don't have access to one just use a folded towel). This is better practice anyway because it more closely mimics shots in actual hunting situations.
Good luck. If you are considering purchasing anothe scope I highly recommend the following, all of which can be purchased on ebay for less than $200.00 each. I own all three and love them. All are bright, fully multi-coated optics, well constructed, and have lifetime warranties.
Nikon Buckmaster 3X9X40
Burris Fullfield II 3X9X40
Bushnell Elite 3200 3X9X40
Mouthcaller
10-27-2007, 10:37 PM
#6
Fork Horn
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: G.P. Oregon
Posts: 311
RE: bad scope ? how do you tell...
hey thanks alot instead of racking my shoulder I will take it into a gun shop thanks. I was researching this particular model of rifle and it comes in a wide range of barrels so I need to know how to mount a scope and such . I have adjusted scopes will some success in the past maybe I will take it to the range and try it before resorting to a gunsmith.
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