Thoughts on FBH
 

When I was 8 I played farm system baseball. I was among the top few players in my age group. At 9, we either played minor or little league ball next. There were tryouts before the next season to determine where you would play. I was picked by a little league team. As a pitcher and catcher (no comments), I did very well against kids my own age. But when I went to little league, playing against kids as old as 12, it was a very different story.
My point to this is the age advancement from Future Bowhunter. At 9, I don’t think the kids are ready to be put out on courses; shooting against 12 year olds. The pressure of now having to judge distance, along with competing against kids much older, is allot for the younger ones to handle. There is a huge difference between a 9 year old and a 12 year old. It is very intimidating for young kids to perform in front of older kids. The older kids are shooting bows of much higher poundage than the younger ones. This, in itself, is a huge advantage. Would it not be better to keep kids in FBH until 10? There would be no need for another class since FBH is non-competitive. What are everyone’s thoughts on this?

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

The majority of the shoots the FBH shoot with their parents, so do cubs. Its at the national level that its split.

I had a FBH turned cub, in his last year as FBH he was almost cleaning the course, at Peek-n-Peek at the FBH shoot the last year he was there, he shot a 98/100. He jumped to cub and it devasted his fragile ego. The sudden jump to 30 yards, where you have multiple pins and distance guessing did him in, not the competing against older kids.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

The FBH is a class for the pure enjoyment of the children. The class is set up with the best intentions and the enjoyment of each child can not be predicted. Overall the class can only be monitored and changes made based on each new expierence. I believe that each phase of the FBH shoot is about as basic as it can be and still have any structure.

The parents of the participants are the most influencial part of the shoot. They alone can can determine whether or not the child is ready to handle the expierence mentally as well as physically. Learning to accept disappointments as well as accomplishments has to be taught prior to any undertaking such as shooting a bow. Safety is the first thing that has to be taught and then each parent has to determine when children are ready to participate, based on how well they can mix and participate.
When a child graduates to the next level at what ever age, they decide to continue and accept the rules and the wins and losses are a part of the game. The IBO can make available the games but how the individual archers play the game is strictly and individual thing which at that young age is the side of their character that they must learn at home.
Lets try to make it an enjoyable expierence for all the kids and hope that every kid can learn something that will benefit them in the future.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

This is exactly what I'm talking about. I don't feel 9 and 10 year old kids are ready for this. Has the negative experience affected your son's desire to shoot? That's one of my concerns. If we are to bring the young ones along, and into the ranks, we need to do so carefully.

So how do you tell your child they can't shoot at The Triple Crown, or The Worlds, this year? Placement is not my concern. Hitting the targets, and shooting a score they can live with is very important to the kids, same as the adults. Most adults can accept the bumps and go on. Many children have a much harder time dealing with disappointment.

Ken, or anyone from the IBO, please jump in with your thoughts and comments. And anyone else with kids, too.

[Deleted]
 

[Deleted by Admins]

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

This wouldn't necessitate forming a new class. Merely a rule change re: age for FBH.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

I think that the key here is to have your kids ready to shoot and accept the results prior to going to a national event. The IBO can not custom make a class for each individual child. At the age you are talking about the child is learning how to accept and fit in in the many things that they do daily. The partents have the responsibility of teaching children values and rewards for the daily thing that they may expierience. In an organization dealing with children each child must be treated fair and they must feel that the expierence was a good one. Ability is not something that the IBO can control other than possibly some basic instructions to let the child know they care and want them to do better. Raising a child is very difficult at times but in most cases is also very rewarding and that is why parents are the most important people when it comes to building character in children. If a child is not ready for a shooting expierence than try to have them ready the next time.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

fastfletch:
Come on. We're talking about kids under 10 years old, here. Kids at that age are very easily disappointed, and can quickly loose interest. Especially when the added pressure of judging distance and shooting with much older kids (12 is much older than 9) is thrown in.

That's the usual response any time a possible rule change is proposed. All that need be done is to raise the age for FBH to 10. How would that "custom make a class for each individual child?

So why not propose to raise the age to 10? That certainly wouldn't hinder the chances of a good experience. And how could it be unfair?

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

Suggestions for change are acceptable at any time I would suggest. When you can suggest a change that will make the majority of any class happy I'm sure that it will be a great suggestion. If such change is only being suggested by one or a few more people I'm sure that such changes will take much more study. Any time that someone makes a suggestion that will give the FBH a better format that ALL OF KIDS can enjoy and benefit from it will be accepted and requested by many people. If your suggestion is such I'm sure that there will be many more people requesting the change from the BOD. There are no losers in the FBH class and the IBO does not build these children it only makes a form of recreation available.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

the bod will always try to do what is best for the kids, but if you have read any of my responses you know I do not beleive in making changes because of a few comments on web. what needs to be done is at the national and world shoot start a petition and have the parents that agree with you sign it and if that is what the majority wants I am sure it could be done. just so you know if the age was changed to 9 or 10 and someone felt they could handle shooting the cub class nothing says they can not move up early, same as a youth moving to an adult class early.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

In reality, we have never told a child no in the FBH gathering. This is not a competitive event.
It is not going to become a competitive event. We have been there. It was not pretty.

With that in mind I do not believe any of the officials at an event would really object to a nine or ten year old playeing in FBH.
But , having said that this group is not going to become a showcase for a parents ego. As I said above, we have seen that.

Speaking of that let's talk a bit about the youth classes and parents.
These classes are for the participants, NOT their parents.
We recieve complaints from every other parent regarding their children. You should not let parents go with the shooters!
Why don't you let parents go with the kids?
His father helped him. His mother helped her. It's not fair that I can't help my son/daughter.
It's not right that my son can only shoot 40 pounds. He shoots 65 at home. (CUB)
That is just a sample. I would bet that at the past worlds a third of the complaints were from PARENTS of youth shooters, about the other shooters or their parents.

In listening to most of the problems in these circumstances we could turn around, point a finger and say to Mom or Dad, shame on you.
There are some problems brought to our attention that have a legit base. In that case our gut feeling is to deal with the problem as strongly as possible. Then we hear it is often a parent that caused the problem in the first case. Now we are forced to penalize a child for an adults mistake.
We call that little league syndrome.

We must teach our children an ethical approach to the games. If we do not we are in effect teaching them an unethical practice.
Ours is a solitary pursuit in the field. Our ethics are not on parade for many people. We have to make ethical choices many times out there by ourself. What are we teaching our kids that will support the right choice?

We have a great program for youth shooters. We also enjoy their participation. We are proud of our association with Hocking College and the scholarship program they offer our youth shooters.
Many of our kids have taken advantage of this program and gotten a college education from it.

Sometimes we can win. Sometimes we must congratulate the winner. That is where we find our own level of sportsmanship.
It is our parental resposibility to show our children how to respect the accomplishments of others.
I for one do not believe it my duty to teach them how to find a way around that part of the job.
Sorry to be so preachy, but the parents from this past season with their attitudes and conduct have been knawing at me.
ken watkins

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

Ken, thanks for the reply. I understand the IBO's position. My intention was never to see inflated scores in FBH. Merely to see, if possible, that there might be some way to allow the kids that are not ready for Cubs, to shoot where they would be more comfortable. It seems there is. I was not aware of the open attitude re: age in FBH. I think this is a very good policy. Since my hope in posting this was to see if I was alone in feeling this way, I won't address your other concerns here. Though you have many valid points. Thanks to those of you who replied to this, also.
BTW, I fully understand your remarks re: parent's egos. Where I live, the girl's softball league had to issue orders refraining parents from cheering. There were physical altercations in the bleachers. Unbelievable!!

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

In response to Ken's post, AAAMMMEENNNN!!

I do agree that parent's are a creator of some of our issues.

I do agree that cubs, in particular, should be accompanied by adults at the national & world shoots. Example: Johnny in group 1, his parent should go with a different group of children and Joe in group 2 his parent can go with group 1. I don't think these kids should be unsupervised, but I don't believe parents should be accompaning their own children. Result is exactly what Ken is talking about. I have shot with some cubs this year and their parents accompanied us, as a parent I can say this, PARENTS YOU are the ones putting alot of the pressure on your kids + it embarasses them in front of their new friends. Once you have your kids on the range, if you don't have encouraging words to say (good line, yardage was great, shot broke nice etc), shut up and let them shoot, the pressure is enough when they see their buddy shooting good. Coaching is for the back yard and practice bales. If you can give the encouraging word you will be the COOL parent. I saw both this year, one child was not as happy as the other. Don't ruin it for your kids. I was raised it doesn't matter if you win or lose its how you play the game. Let them have fun. If your child isn't ready for the move to cub, then don't move them up, as Ken said they haven't turned kids away FBH is non competitive, remember FUN.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

I think that one of the hardest lessons we as parents must teach our kids is how to be competitive and happy without the need to be first. Most of our lives we spend doing things that someone else can do better. Its critical that our kids learn that they can stand and compete against what seems at times to be insurmountable odds, and still take home personal victories. Its easy to teach them to want to win, thats part of our very nature. Teach them to take a victory home from 5th or 500th place, now you've accomplished something. They, and we, need to see the the accomplishments of others from the back row once in a while, to really appreciate the glory when its our turn to shine.

RE: Thoughts on FBH
 

in 2003 my daughter made the cut in the cub class. I walked it with her as it was the first time she had been in that kind of situation... yes she has been peered at the state level but this was a whole different pressure. She did shoot the first day by herself... It was harder for me I believe as a parent following along watching her start off cleaning the first 6 targets and then watch her slide with 3 fives and an 8 to finish taking her from potential top score to 11th. I can see where the potential lies for a parent to try and help, when thier goal is to see their child achive something they worked so hard for, but fall short. Sportmenship levels are tested on both the child and the parent in this situation. Doing as other have said in supporting with kind words and encouragement will mean more in the long run than trying to slip the child an edge to help.

It is nice to hear that the IBO is alittle less strict about the age advancement with the FBH than is written. It should be a bit of the parent choise as to when the child is ready for full out competition. My oldest was ready earily, my youngest wont be, but still wants to shoot. I sure don't want her to get pummeled into the dirt till she is ready mentally to handle it. Right now my oldest is having a tough time adjusting to the age advancement to shooting against young ladies up to 17 and she is 14, but she saw success in the past and is old enough to understand it that her time will come again.