Snowshoe considerations
08-21-2003, 07:01 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 7
Snowshoe considerations
Snowshoe
Another location is a possiblity: however, there are contracts and monumental logistics to consider.
Bob Evans, a recent suggestion, is out because they have a hang-up about monetary rewards for competition.
Canaan Valley is a good consideration, lots of excellent accommodations, ski slopes and national forests. There are also problems with fog/weather, as do all W.VA' s elevations.
Snowshoe is still a great chioice. Perhaps we could extend the competition days to 4 or 5 instead of 2
Any time you try to cram a world event into two and a half active days you are begging for trouble. I never did feel that a Sunday finale was adequate because everyone has to travel to return to his or her home and work. Shoot off' s scheduled at dusk is not good either.
Trails can be modified, and youngsters courses can be corrected, or relocated.
If, in fact, there will be an ununreasonable increase in room rates, I strongly suggest another location. I am not one to yield to extortion.
Bob Fruda
[email protected]
Huntington, W.Va.
Another location is a possiblity: however, there are contracts and monumental logistics to consider.
Bob Evans, a recent suggestion, is out because they have a hang-up about monetary rewards for competition.
Canaan Valley is a good consideration, lots of excellent accommodations, ski slopes and national forests. There are also problems with fog/weather, as do all W.VA' s elevations.
Snowshoe is still a great chioice. Perhaps we could extend the competition days to 4 or 5 instead of 2
Any time you try to cram a world event into two and a half active days you are begging for trouble. I never did feel that a Sunday finale was adequate because everyone has to travel to return to his or her home and work. Shoot off' s scheduled at dusk is not good either.
Trails can be modified, and youngsters courses can be corrected, or relocated.
If, in fact, there will be an ununreasonable increase in room rates, I strongly suggest another location. I am not one to yield to extortion.
Bob Fruda
[email protected]
Huntington, W.Va.
08-21-2003, 07:07 AM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vermilion OH USA
Posts: 426
RE: Snowshoe considerations
There have not been any room rate increases. Judy has spoken with Snowshoes Marketing Rep that handles these things for Snowshoe relative to IBO. She sent Judy the room rate list next year and it is the same as we had for 03. Just as the contract calls for.
BUT, if you change to a larger condo or a different facility on the mountain the cost may be more, or less.
If you have been mis-quoted please call us and we will make sure you get the correct rate.
ken12
BUT, if you change to a larger condo or a different facility on the mountain the cost may be more, or less.
If you have been mis-quoted please call us and we will make sure you get the correct rate.
ken12
08-21-2003, 07:41 AM
#3
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 15
RE: Snowshoe considerations
To be honest I am very dissappointed in both the IBO and Snowshoe for handling the situation last weekend the way they did. Granted, I know that it' s an extremely tough decision to make to cancel a day' s shooting, but I don' t think that was the only alternative. Here are my top suggestions.
1. Start shooting on Thursday instead of Friday. That will give a full day' s cushion in case the weather is inclement or there are problems with the ranges.
2. Rather than cancelling the whole day of shooting, the top 25% or the top 20 (whichever is greater) in each class could have shot on Saturday afternoon after the bad weather had cleared. Then the bottom shooters in each class could shoot on Sunday morning if they wanted to. I think this would aleviate alot of the frustration that people felt over not being able to shoot.
3. Don' t EVER let a World Championship be decided by a mere 10 targets. And certainly don' t completely discard scores that have already been earned. That' s a sure fire way to irritate, infuriate, as well as lose a large number of your members. According to the IBO rule book there are specific limitations on distance for each class, and as long as they have been adhered to, there shouldn' t ever be a case of one course being " more difficult" than another. I walked both ranges for my class and I didn' t think that either one was easier.
4. Last, and this is exceedingly important to consider. Give the members a chance to voice their concerns and offer their suggestions. I know that it would be difficult , but simply letting folks have their say goes a long way towards building good will in a tough situation. And who knows there might have been some good ideas that could have made people happy or at least a little less livid.
To be honest I' m still looking forward to next year at Snowshoe. It' s going to be a very different story and I plan on showing all the ladies in my class exactly what I can do with my bow, even though I didn' t get a chance to this year.
1. Start shooting on Thursday instead of Friday. That will give a full day' s cushion in case the weather is inclement or there are problems with the ranges.
2. Rather than cancelling the whole day of shooting, the top 25% or the top 20 (whichever is greater) in each class could have shot on Saturday afternoon after the bad weather had cleared. Then the bottom shooters in each class could shoot on Sunday morning if they wanted to. I think this would aleviate alot of the frustration that people felt over not being able to shoot.
3. Don' t EVER let a World Championship be decided by a mere 10 targets. And certainly don' t completely discard scores that have already been earned. That' s a sure fire way to irritate, infuriate, as well as lose a large number of your members. According to the IBO rule book there are specific limitations on distance for each class, and as long as they have been adhered to, there shouldn' t ever be a case of one course being " more difficult" than another. I walked both ranges for my class and I didn' t think that either one was easier.
4. Last, and this is exceedingly important to consider. Give the members a chance to voice their concerns and offer their suggestions. I know that it would be difficult , but simply letting folks have their say goes a long way towards building good will in a tough situation. And who knows there might have been some good ideas that could have made people happy or at least a little less livid.
To be honest I' m still looking forward to next year at Snowshoe. It' s going to be a very different story and I plan on showing all the ladies in my class exactly what I can do with my bow, even though I didn' t get a chance to this year.
08-21-2003, 10:22 AM
#4
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
RE: Snowshoe considerations
Buffy, some good suggestions, but a couple of points, the championships wasn' t decided on 10, but on 30 targets, 20 Friday and 10 Sunday. Not ideal, but most local shoots are 30, at least around here.
You can very easily have hard/easy course within the same distances, even if target for target the distances are identicle they can be drastically different in difficulty due to hills, angles, targets, tricks to make distance estimation hard etc.
--Bob
08-21-2003, 11:59 AM
#5
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 15
RE: Snowshoe considerations
Bob,
I understand what you are saying and there is definitly some truth there. However, I would counter with the fact that there isn' t a single place on Snowshoe mountain that doesn' t have rugged terrain. Believe me, I' ve looked. Plus there is the fact that all the literature for World clearly states that the terrain is extrememly rugged and to dress and prepare accordingly. Should we penalize those that thave taken that into account when they prepare for a large shoot such as this simply because other people may not have done the same? If we start quibbling about the terrain on various ranges we might be better served finding a site on flat land that could host. Something that I doubt will really be considered at any length.
Yes, the shoot was decided by 10 targets. Some people got their first days scores counted with the second, so why not do that for everyone to be fair? You are right at least in part because the first days targets were what deterimined who would be shooting on Sunday. But at the same time I am right in that the final outcome of the shoot was deterimined by the second days 10 targets. In my class, if the first days scores had been added to the scores from Sunday you would have had a much different outcome, and the person, who would have won it, would have done so by a margin of at least 6 points (by my calculations at least).
Let me reitterate, I' m not boycotting the IBO, I still believe in it' s mission and the role it serves to promote the sport we all love so dearly. But if the IBO is going to truly represent its members, it HAS to listen to their complaints as well as the praise. Which, as far as I am concerned, they are doing.
I understand what you are saying and there is definitly some truth there. However, I would counter with the fact that there isn' t a single place on Snowshoe mountain that doesn' t have rugged terrain. Believe me, I' ve looked. Plus there is the fact that all the literature for World clearly states that the terrain is extrememly rugged and to dress and prepare accordingly. Should we penalize those that thave taken that into account when they prepare for a large shoot such as this simply because other people may not have done the same? If we start quibbling about the terrain on various ranges we might be better served finding a site on flat land that could host. Something that I doubt will really be considered at any length.
Yes, the shoot was decided by 10 targets. Some people got their first days scores counted with the second, so why not do that for everyone to be fair? You are right at least in part because the first days targets were what deterimined who would be shooting on Sunday. But at the same time I am right in that the final outcome of the shoot was deterimined by the second days 10 targets. In my class, if the first days scores had been added to the scores from Sunday you would have had a much different outcome, and the person, who would have won it, would have done so by a margin of at least 6 points (by my calculations at least).
Let me reitterate, I' m not boycotting the IBO, I still believe in it' s mission and the role it serves to promote the sport we all love so dearly. But if the IBO is going to truly represent its members, it HAS to listen to their complaints as well as the praise. Which, as far as I am concerned, they are doing.
08-21-2003, 12:13 PM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Stratford CT
Posts: 80
RE: Snowshoe considerations
For all intents and purposes, Bob it was really determined by 20 targets and not 30.... At least that' s true if you look at it from the perspective of the 98% of all shooters who could have packed up and left Saturday morning since only the 1st 20 targes determined the 5 in each class that would end up with money and/or prizes.
08-21-2003, 02:18 PM
#8
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 4
RE: Snowshoe considerations
In MOST cases it certainly was decided on 10 targets, the scores were not cumulative!
In SOME cases, because of group size,The person who won may not of even been able to shot in the shoot off, if saturday had gone as planned.[:@]
And I also feel that if the Friday scores would have been cumulative with Sunday, YES the results would have been different, much more different
much more competitive.
Much easier for all to bear.
10 targets= World Champion.
It is hard for all when
The National Champions Shoots 120 Targets to win and
The World Champions Shoots 10
That' s just a little hard to tolerate.
[X(]
In SOME cases, because of group size,The person who won may not of even been able to shot in the shoot off, if saturday had gone as planned.[:@]
And I also feel that if the Friday scores would have been cumulative with Sunday, YES the results would have been different, much more different
much more competitive.
Much easier for all to bear.
10 targets= World Champion.
It is hard for all when
The National Champions Shoots 120 Targets to win and
The World Champions Shoots 10
That' s just a little hard to tolerate.
[X(]
08-21-2003, 02:46 PM
#9
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
RE: Snowshoe considerations
Ok, I see your 10 target point, forgot about that. Ya I am sure things would have been different cumulative, Hopkins had 5 point lead, if he could take that into 10 more targets, fat chance catching him [&:]
But cumulative also wouldn' t have been fair, at least to all, ya all the terrain is rough, but courses are all different. I have shot the worlds pretty much for the last 6 years (missed 1) and have never had two days where I didn' t think one day was easier than the other. But then again, for the top folks in each division, the scores probably don' t change much.
--Bob
