Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
07-29-2003, 05:42 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore MD USA
Posts: 7
Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
Did anyone see Ken' s response to an e-mailer about HC payouts in the latest edition of Bowhunting World (Pg. 51)? You know, I just don' t get it. Why do I get the impression the IBO has a certain disdain and regret over the creation of this class? HC is second only to MBO in popularity and participation. It allows the IBO to cater to the bowhunter and their needs. If you desire to move up to something more competitive and challenging, other classes are available. But, there is a large population of archers who have no desire to go beyond typical hunting didstances. If an archer feels comfortable shooting a maximum of 35 yards and that' s ALL HE EVER INTENDS TO DO, so be it!!!
I think the issue of payouts in HC is a legitimate and fair one. When you consistantly have 300-450 shooters in a class and see how that compares to the payout and participation in other classes, it' s worth an explanation. Yes, I understand the HC registration fees are lower, but that doesn' t completely account for the difference. I don' t feel it' s fair to subsidize the payouts to other classes with the fees paid by HC shooters.
Don' t get me wrong, I like the IBO and I have enjoyed shooting the tournaments and the archers I have met. But, I left Field Archery for 3-D because I felt the NFAA was making too many changes for the wrong reasons. Every time they made a rule or target change, it blew up in their faces. Please IBO, don' t make the same mistake. You' ve provided a nice balance of shooting styles that provides a little something for everyone. It may be trite, but don' t bite the hand that feeds you!
mdarcher
I think the issue of payouts in HC is a legitimate and fair one. When you consistantly have 300-450 shooters in a class and see how that compares to the payout and participation in other classes, it' s worth an explanation. Yes, I understand the HC registration fees are lower, but that doesn' t completely account for the difference. I don' t feel it' s fair to subsidize the payouts to other classes with the fees paid by HC shooters.
Don' t get me wrong, I like the IBO and I have enjoyed shooting the tournaments and the archers I have met. But, I left Field Archery for 3-D because I felt the NFAA was making too many changes for the wrong reasons. Every time they made a rule or target change, it blew up in their faces. Please IBO, don' t make the same mistake. You' ve provided a nice balance of shooting styles that provides a little something for everyone. It may be trite, but don' t bite the hand that feeds you!
mdarcher
07-29-2003, 06:04 AM
#2
Nontypical Buck
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 2,358
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
MDArcher, have you been around for the history of the HC, it was for bringing in the non-competitive shooter and for hunters and for folks who didn' t want to do the MBR/MBO, but after the first year the popularity shot up and it was NOT from the new shooter, non-competitive guy. It was from guys who were close to winning MBR, MBO, SPM but not quite there, they dropped down just for the money. HC had the biggest payout with the exception of pmr. People complained and rightfully so. If the HC is for the non-competitive, beginner etc, then you need to get these " droppers" back out of it.
--Bob
07-29-2003, 06:57 AM
#3
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Amherst Ohio USA
Posts: 53
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
MDArcher Each class in the IBO is seperate. All money that is paid into that class goes back to that class. The board put a cap on the winners payout but then uses the Lewis system for paying out the rest of the money to this class. Last year after the World Shoot the IBO sent out $20,000 in gift certificates to Hunter Class participants. Ask some of your fellow shooters and see if they didn' t get one!
07-29-2003, 08:12 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vermilion OH USA
Posts: 426
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
There is absolutely no disdain whatsoever in my reply.
The class was intended by the IBO to be a less competitive segment of the present and potential shooters. By less competitive I mean , those that choose a LESS competitive class. It was to be a class for a bowhunter to step into and feel a comfort level beyond what would occur in the distances and competition of MBO and MBR. It was for a mid level MBO and MBR shooter to enter and have a good time. Not for a top five finisher at the world in MBO to enter.
As I mentioned in the reply in Bowhunting World, look for the constraints on the winners of the HC, at the national and world level to get tighter, before they get less constrictive.
I do not have any problem with a shooter winning in the Hunter Class. It is a class. Someone must win.
However, as a sportsman, at some point a shooter (in a class designed to be less competitive) must consider that he should think about a greater challenge.
We created four levels of competition that are intended to accomodate any and all shooters that choose to participate. Hunter classes,amateur classes, Semi- Pro and Pro classes. One should fit pretty much every shooter that would like to try shooting 3-D. Maybe we are naive to believe that the shooters will decide themselves at which level they should be competing. We do still have faith in the sportsman in each of us to decide that correctly.
The IBO Board of Directors are not discussing or considering anything relevant to this issue, at this time. We are letting that faith play out a while.
ken12
The class was intended by the IBO to be a less competitive segment of the present and potential shooters. By less competitive I mean , those that choose a LESS competitive class. It was to be a class for a bowhunter to step into and feel a comfort level beyond what would occur in the distances and competition of MBO and MBR. It was for a mid level MBO and MBR shooter to enter and have a good time. Not for a top five finisher at the world in MBO to enter.
As I mentioned in the reply in Bowhunting World, look for the constraints on the winners of the HC, at the national and world level to get tighter, before they get less constrictive.
I do not have any problem with a shooter winning in the Hunter Class. It is a class. Someone must win.
However, as a sportsman, at some point a shooter (in a class designed to be less competitive) must consider that he should think about a greater challenge.
We created four levels of competition that are intended to accomodate any and all shooters that choose to participate. Hunter classes,amateur classes, Semi- Pro and Pro classes. One should fit pretty much every shooter that would like to try shooting 3-D. Maybe we are naive to believe that the shooters will decide themselves at which level they should be competing. We do still have faith in the sportsman in each of us to decide that correctly.
The IBO Board of Directors are not discussing or considering anything relevant to this issue, at this time. We are letting that faith play out a while.
ken12
07-29-2003, 08:25 AM
#5
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Watertown NY USA
Posts: 34
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
The hunter class was designed to give the people who aren' t comfortable shooting the longer distances a class to shoot in. But, I also feel that maybe the way to " weed out" the shooters that are shooting it just for the money, maybe they should just have a " trophy" class for HC. I shoot FHC and I would have no problem if they had just trophy class for HC. You would see a lot of the people drop out of hunter class and get back in the classes they belong in!
07-29-2003, 09:27 AM
#6
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Hepzibah WV USA
Posts: 313
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
Ken, I think the money cap was a good Idea, but not good enough. I shot HC last year at the world with a Semi Pro drop back. See even 500.00 is better than nothing.This is my second year and I moved to MBR.
I my area HC gets no respect. sissy stake , womans stake , Hey what are you girls doing up there?
You get the Idea, I think we need some disdain in HC, I think that HC is good for beginners and hunters with hunting setups but everyone else needs to stepback a few yards.
I my area HC gets no respect. sissy stake , womans stake , Hey what are you girls doing up there?
You get the Idea, I think we need some disdain in HC, I think that HC is good for beginners and hunters with hunting setups but everyone else needs to stepback a few yards.
07-29-2003, 11:44 AM
#7
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: baltimore md USA
Posts: 10
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
I did not read the article, but I have been a big supporter of the IBO. In 2002 I also shot HC in the Triple Crown and at the Worlds. I noticed that the HC shooters were looked down upon at IBO shoots and at east coast qualifier shoots. I personally think that is WRONG. I have been president of a club in Maryland for 4 years and you meet all kinds of people, " hard nosed competitors" and " off season weekend hunters" . You can' t force the " weekend hunters" to shoot distances that they dont want to shoot. If you do that, you may just lose those shooters all together. Leave the HC alone.
I see all this complaining constantly on this forum about HC. Frankly I dont understand. MDarcher is correct in my eyes, year after year the IBO does not need to keep making changes to their classes or to their scoring system, just to suit a few primmadonnas, that are so close to winning, but can' t. IBO Dont bite that hand !! you may regret it in the long run. You sure don' t see golf changing their rules evertime Tiger wins.
Good job IBO
I see all this complaining constantly on this forum about HC. Frankly I dont understand. MDarcher is correct in my eyes, year after year the IBO does not need to keep making changes to their classes or to their scoring system, just to suit a few primmadonnas, that are so close to winning, but can' t. IBO Dont bite that hand !! you may regret it in the long run. You sure don' t see golf changing their rules evertime Tiger wins.
Good job IBO
07-30-2003, 07:53 AM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vermilion OH USA
Posts: 426
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
Boarro was correct with his $20,000 figure.
I just took the list down last week in preperation for this year.
The purse this year will be $4882.50 from the qualifiers. If there are the same number of shooters as last year,399 (the math is easy). There will be generated $9576.00 from entry fees. A total of $14,458.00.
Last year we were able to make a creative purchase of gift certificates and got the $20,000.
I will not say that will happen this year, I do not have the gift certificates in hand ,yet. Cannot get them until the world is finished. We have had the discussion for the purchase and we will see.
The gift certificates (beyond the shooters that qualify for the finals) will again be awarded by the Lewis Handicap system. The same way the defense fund range prizes are awarded.
MD Archer,I can simply verify that. BoArro knows what he is talking about.
If shooters are making fun of the shorter distances I sincerely hope it is as we do. At our local shoots we have an ice cream cone on them amongst the shooters from our club. As Sometimes happens I must buy. I will make comment about if you had to shoot at my stake, as I plunk down the $$.
If anyone makes a comment like that derisively, shame on you.
In reference to my above post, if you have been winning almost every shoot around home for the past two years, maybe you should think of changing classes.
That' s all I want to do, is not an excuse.
ken12
I just took the list down last week in preperation for this year.
The purse this year will be $4882.50 from the qualifiers. If there are the same number of shooters as last year,399 (the math is easy). There will be generated $9576.00 from entry fees. A total of $14,458.00.
Last year we were able to make a creative purchase of gift certificates and got the $20,000.
I will not say that will happen this year, I do not have the gift certificates in hand ,yet. Cannot get them until the world is finished. We have had the discussion for the purchase and we will see.
The gift certificates (beyond the shooters that qualify for the finals) will again be awarded by the Lewis Handicap system. The same way the defense fund range prizes are awarded.
MD Archer,I can simply verify that. BoArro knows what he is talking about.
If shooters are making fun of the shorter distances I sincerely hope it is as we do. At our local shoots we have an ice cream cone on them amongst the shooters from our club. As Sometimes happens I must buy. I will make comment about if you had to shoot at my stake, as I plunk down the $$.
If anyone makes a comment like that derisively, shame on you.
In reference to my above post, if you have been winning almost every shoot around home for the past two years, maybe you should think of changing classes.
That' s all I want to do, is not an excuse.
ken12
07-30-2003, 10:20 AM
#10
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Baltimore MD USA
Posts: 7
RE: Ken' s HC remarks in Bowhunting World
Ken,
Thanks for the info. There are many HC shooters here in Maryland, and none of them could believe the amount stated above was correct. I stand corrected.
My biggest complaint has been the perception and statements that HC is a begineers class. If that was the original intent, then a time limit for participation should have been established. But now, you have a large number of shooters who have started and are staying in this class. If that' s what they choose, what' s the problem?
I understand the problem with shooters dropping-back so they can win. However, there are ways to handle such issues without penalizing the rest of us. I' m glad to hear there are no major changes in the works. As I stated above, I like the fact that the IBO has something to offer for everybody, regardless of skill level. But, I will decide when it' s time to ' move-up' . My archery skills don' t put me in a position to win anything and if HC is were I feel comfortable, that' s were I will stay. Enough said.
mdarcher
Thanks for the info. There are many HC shooters here in Maryland, and none of them could believe the amount stated above was correct. I stand corrected.
My biggest complaint has been the perception and statements that HC is a begineers class. If that was the original intent, then a time limit for participation should have been established. But now, you have a large number of shooters who have started and are staying in this class. If that' s what they choose, what' s the problem?
I understand the problem with shooters dropping-back so they can win. However, there are ways to handle such issues without penalizing the rest of us. I' m glad to hear there are no major changes in the works. As I stated above, I like the fact that the IBO has something to offer for everybody, regardless of skill level. But, I will decide when it' s time to ' move-up' . My archery skills don' t put me in a position to win anything and if HC is were I feel comfortable, that' s were I will stay. Enough said.
mdarcher