IBO rule changes due to 3DI
03-09-2008, 08:24 AM
#22
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 81
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
FINGERS
NICE TO HERE FROM YOU AND I'M ALSO GLAD THAT I SAW YOU AT THE ATA SHOW.
I REALLY DONT LIKE TO PUT SOMEONE IN A SPOT TO GET SOMETHING FROM THEM. I WENT TO A LOCAL SHOP AND ASKED IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO GET ON HOYTS SHOOTING STAFF THROUGH THEM, HE SAID I COULD BUT I WOULD STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR WHAT I GOT. IF YOU'RE ON STAFF WITH SOMEONE AND THEY WANT TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING OR LET YOU BUY IT AT A REDUCED COST THATS DIFFERENT. I'M NOT OUT TO LEECH OFF SOMEBODY OR TO GET A FREE RIDE.
JIM
NICE TO HERE FROM YOU AND I'M ALSO GLAD THAT I SAW YOU AT THE ATA SHOW.
I REALLY DONT LIKE TO PUT SOMEONE IN A SPOT TO GET SOMETHING FROM THEM. I WENT TO A LOCAL SHOP AND ASKED IF IT WOULD BE POSSIBLE TO GET ON HOYTS SHOOTING STAFF THROUGH THEM, HE SAID I COULD BUT I WOULD STILL HAVE TO PAY FOR WHAT I GOT. IF YOU'RE ON STAFF WITH SOMEONE AND THEY WANT TO GIVE YOU SOMETHING OR LET YOU BUY IT AT A REDUCED COST THATS DIFFERENT. I'M NOT OUT TO LEECH OFF SOMEBODY OR TO GET A FREE RIDE.
JIM
03-11-2008, 08:34 AM
#23
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: TROUPSBURG, N.Y
Posts: 371
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
My post on this subject is based entirely on past expierence many years ago. When I started shooting people that shot with a sight on their bow were very few and were looked down on. Since that time many things have changed and so have the numbers. Every bow then and now had the capability of shooting a perfrect score however the shooter with that capability did not exist. Since that time archery manufacturers have been trying to improve there product and shooters keep working to better their skills to utilize the improvements made by archery companies. The vast majority of archers now use much more equipment on their bow and bows that give them ways that make a higher score attainable with practice. The vast majority now are the people that prefer shooting aids to help them shoot higher scores during competitive events and especially in hunting situations. Shooting a bow is a game that puts you against the bow and the competitive game that you may choose. Rules are necessary to level the playing field (if possible) and to keep the majority happy with the game. If a few people in any class feel that the rules should be changed they must first find out what the majority of the shooters in that class are thinking and then present the facts to the people that are responsib le for making the rules. In this post 7 or 8 people have responded and some of the post could have been addressed directly to the BODor the President (CEO).At the Worldlast year there weremany shooters in the classes mentioned but evidently the majority considered the shoot and the rules to be
fair and just. Criticisim on the net for the most part serves no purpose other than to give outsiders a reason to question the organization itself. The IBO has on many occasions tried to obtain information about suggested changes by individuals by polling as many people as possible that would be affected by a change. Bluejacket's and Judy responses were justified and to the point and were based on facts pertaining to the questions. These responses were from people in the know and with favoritisim toward no individual or group. Many times people would be much further ahead to ask the people in the know for the facts pertaining to an issue before posting comments unfavorable to their organization. The Forum is available for all to express their thoughts and opinions as I have done here and others with equal value have done the same. Bluejacket your post should have justified the BOD making the necessary changes to rules and it should also explain a reasoning that some people don't think of or know about. The forum is a great tool and should be used to enjoy and obtain other shooters expierences and suggestions. The IBO is an organization made up of archers from different locationsand different backgrounds but all with one purpose, to Promote Archery. If some issues cause people to leave the organization the silent majority may be staying to help make necessary changes as the majority dictates.MAJORITY RULES
fair and just. Criticisim on the net for the most part serves no purpose other than to give outsiders a reason to question the organization itself. The IBO has on many occasions tried to obtain information about suggested changes by individuals by polling as many people as possible that would be affected by a change. Bluejacket's and Judy responses were justified and to the point and were based on facts pertaining to the questions. These responses were from people in the know and with favoritisim toward no individual or group. Many times people would be much further ahead to ask the people in the know for the facts pertaining to an issue before posting comments unfavorable to their organization. The Forum is available for all to express their thoughts and opinions as I have done here and others with equal value have done the same. Bluejacket your post should have justified the BOD making the necessary changes to rules and it should also explain a reasoning that some people don't think of or know about. The forum is a great tool and should be used to enjoy and obtain other shooters expierences and suggestions. The IBO is an organization made up of archers from different locationsand different backgrounds but all with one purpose, to Promote Archery. If some issues cause people to leave the organization the silent majority may be staying to help make necessary changes as the majority dictates.MAJORITY RULES
03-12-2008, 08:45 AM
#24
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
Fastfletch- I started in the days when there were two classes. You either had a sight or you did not. There were no sliders, no releases and dang few stabilizers. We shot paper targets and shot til we had a scoring arrow(up to three per target, each with a reduced score). Archery was a lot different then.
To everyone who has responded to this thread- FOR ME, it does not matter whether we shoot 5 yds or 50. Whether we string walk, face walk or moon walk. MY POINT is participation is down is all three classes(if you don't believe me spend some time going thru the results of National Triple Crown)and the only change from 2006 to 2007 was the rule changes. If rules were changed in MBO & MBR that resulted in a 20+% drop in participationI am sure it would have someones attention. Since it is a drop in already small classes it is overlooked.
To Bluejacket- As far as my little quip dividing the bowhunting community I would like that oneexplained to me. While this board is not just limited to IBO members, the vast majority of bowhunters have no idea what we are talking about here. I am not saying that IBO members are not bowhunters(there are some incredible bowhunters in the IBO). The total membership(numbers) of the IBO is very small compared to the number of bowhunters in the midwest let alone the entire country. According to the Bowhunting World Annual there is something like 850,000 licenses sold in Michigan, Ohio and PA(I know that there are multiple tags available/hunter & that some hunters hunt all three states). Even allowing for 30% of that total to be multiple tags and crossover hunters that still leaves roughly 600,000. How many members does the IBO have? Mystatements are not meant to slam the IBO or its membership but in terms of numbers the IBO does not represent the majority of thebowhunting community. We are not bowhunting when we shoot an IBO event. We are playing a target game. I am glad the IBO got involved with the 3DI. It gives some of the Traditional shooters some exposure. Chris I thank you and the other board members for their work in making this come about.
I guess we will have to see what 2008 brings. Gas prices are out of this world so that will have a negative effect on everyone. I will interested to see if what the numbers in RU, TRAD & LB do this year. Next year is a 3DI year, it will be interesting to see if a team is sent. These are just my opinions, with them and $2 you can get a cup of coffee. LOL!
To everyone who has responded to this thread- FOR ME, it does not matter whether we shoot 5 yds or 50. Whether we string walk, face walk or moon walk. MY POINT is participation is down is all three classes(if you don't believe me spend some time going thru the results of National Triple Crown)and the only change from 2006 to 2007 was the rule changes. If rules were changed in MBO & MBR that resulted in a 20+% drop in participationI am sure it would have someones attention. Since it is a drop in already small classes it is overlooked.
To Bluejacket- As far as my little quip dividing the bowhunting community I would like that oneexplained to me. While this board is not just limited to IBO members, the vast majority of bowhunters have no idea what we are talking about here. I am not saying that IBO members are not bowhunters(there are some incredible bowhunters in the IBO). The total membership(numbers) of the IBO is very small compared to the number of bowhunters in the midwest let alone the entire country. According to the Bowhunting World Annual there is something like 850,000 licenses sold in Michigan, Ohio and PA(I know that there are multiple tags available/hunter & that some hunters hunt all three states). Even allowing for 30% of that total to be multiple tags and crossover hunters that still leaves roughly 600,000. How many members does the IBO have? Mystatements are not meant to slam the IBO or its membership but in terms of numbers the IBO does not represent the majority of thebowhunting community. We are not bowhunting when we shoot an IBO event. We are playing a target game. I am glad the IBO got involved with the 3DI. It gives some of the Traditional shooters some exposure. Chris I thank you and the other board members for their work in making this come about.
I guess we will have to see what 2008 brings. Gas prices are out of this world so that will have a negative effect on everyone. I will interested to see if what the numbers in RU, TRAD & LB do this year. Next year is a 3DI year, it will be interesting to see if a team is sent. These are just my opinions, with them and $2 you can get a cup of coffee. LOL!
03-12-2008, 01:19 PM
#25
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Avon Lake Ohio USA
Posts: 232
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
Ok, it's a fair request that I explain my opinions, so let me try.
In the above post you point out that many people view these message boards, some are IBO members looking for clarification of issues, and some are prospective members researching the organizations theyare interested in. We have sponsors and prospective sponsors who follow these discussions not only to evaluate public opinion about their products, but also those who they choose to sponsor and support.We also, often have prospective host organizations monitor these boards to evaluate those participating. So while the internet provides the opportunity to communicate thoughts and ideas in an interactive manner, it also allows rapid dissemination of inaccurate and potentially harmful information. So when we have people who have been involved, such as yourself, making comments that this organization does not respect or recognize the involvement and importance of any segment of our membership, those people who as you point out may not know what we are talking about, may leave with a false negative impression.If I can prevent that with the presentation of factual information, I intend to do so. To that end, if you can present to me how, with the multiple past efforts made, we have failed to properly show respect for this portion of our membership, I'm listening.
Now, I do not believe that it was your intent to misrepresent the information. In reading your follow-up posts, I see a frustration expressed and a desire for expanded recognition for yoursegmentof the sport within the archery community as a whole. To some extent Ican understand and even share that frustration.However, the most that can be asked of any organization is to continue to provide the opportunities for participation. The choice to become involved lies exclusively with the individual.
I will respectfully disagree with you on one further point. Every event we conduct showcases bowhunters and their abilities. While it is, in fact, not a live hunt, our events serve to encourage and educate the average bowhunter to improve their performance, and introduce bowhunters to the communities around us. The success and safety of our events have helped open doors and continue to secure hunting and shooting opportunities around the world. How we conduct ourselves in public or on these forums helps to definehowwe are perceived by the general public. We do not function in a protective bubble, but rather under a very intense microscope.
In the above post you point out that many people view these message boards, some are IBO members looking for clarification of issues, and some are prospective members researching the organizations theyare interested in. We have sponsors and prospective sponsors who follow these discussions not only to evaluate public opinion about their products, but also those who they choose to sponsor and support.We also, often have prospective host organizations monitor these boards to evaluate those participating. So while the internet provides the opportunity to communicate thoughts and ideas in an interactive manner, it also allows rapid dissemination of inaccurate and potentially harmful information. So when we have people who have been involved, such as yourself, making comments that this organization does not respect or recognize the involvement and importance of any segment of our membership, those people who as you point out may not know what we are talking about, may leave with a false negative impression.If I can prevent that with the presentation of factual information, I intend to do so. To that end, if you can present to me how, with the multiple past efforts made, we have failed to properly show respect for this portion of our membership, I'm listening.
Now, I do not believe that it was your intent to misrepresent the information. In reading your follow-up posts, I see a frustration expressed and a desire for expanded recognition for yoursegmentof the sport within the archery community as a whole. To some extent Ican understand and even share that frustration.However, the most that can be asked of any organization is to continue to provide the opportunities for participation. The choice to become involved lies exclusively with the individual.
I will respectfully disagree with you on one further point. Every event we conduct showcases bowhunters and their abilities. While it is, in fact, not a live hunt, our events serve to encourage and educate the average bowhunter to improve their performance, and introduce bowhunters to the communities around us. The success and safety of our events have helped open doors and continue to secure hunting and shooting opportunities around the world. How we conduct ourselves in public or on these forums helps to definehowwe are perceived by the general public. We do not function in a protective bubble, but rather under a very intense microscope.
03-12-2008, 01:41 PM
#26
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Amherst Ohio USA
Posts: 53
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
ORIGINAL: Finger
Chris thank you for your response. It is nice to see a Board Member on here. Let me address a couple of things that you said. First of all the respect and recognition comment I made was followed with LOL(laughing out loud) which means I am joking. We don't need a Pro class. It is is someways about respect and recognition. You should try shooting these classes sometime. The top competitors in these classes are virtualy ignored. Other than the Shooter of the Year getting a picture and little bio in the IBO Yearbook. If you read an archery magazine that has coverage of the big shoots only the Pros get press, we and all the other amatuers are ignored. Try being a stick shooter and then try to get a "shooter"bow from someone.I don't know the exact figures but there are dang few people with a factory shooter bow in these classes. Last year at the IBO World there were 5 Hoyts in the shootdown. How many of those 5 guys got anything from Hoyt previous to the shoot? One and that was because of his participation in 3DI in 05. BTW he kinda shamed Hoyt into doing something.
If you would have read my earlier posts you would see that I don't have a problem with the rules as they stand. The 30 yd max fine, string/face walking if that is what you want to do fine by me. The statement I am trying to make is- The rules were changed, a team was not sent to 3DI and participation fell in all three Male stick classes. I have purposely left Female Trad and Youth Trad out because they normally don't participate in the 3DI.
I thank you for the work that the IBO did to establish the 3DI. I also thank you for the Traditional practice ranges at the NTC & World. I know it was much appreciated by the stick shooters. I also want to apologize to Judy my comments were not directed at her. I just wanted to say that as a participant in probably half the national or world shoots the last three years I was not asked to fill out the poll. Even though it would not have mattered to me about the changes it would have been nice to have been asked.
Chris thank you for your response. It is nice to see a Board Member on here. Let me address a couple of things that you said. First of all the respect and recognition comment I made was followed with LOL(laughing out loud) which means I am joking. We don't need a Pro class. It is is someways about respect and recognition. You should try shooting these classes sometime. The top competitors in these classes are virtualy ignored. Other than the Shooter of the Year getting a picture and little bio in the IBO Yearbook. If you read an archery magazine that has coverage of the big shoots only the Pros get press, we and all the other amatuers are ignored. Try being a stick shooter and then try to get a "shooter"bow from someone.I don't know the exact figures but there are dang few people with a factory shooter bow in these classes. Last year at the IBO World there were 5 Hoyts in the shootdown. How many of those 5 guys got anything from Hoyt previous to the shoot? One and that was because of his participation in 3DI in 05. BTW he kinda shamed Hoyt into doing something.
If you would have read my earlier posts you would see that I don't have a problem with the rules as they stand. The 30 yd max fine, string/face walking if that is what you want to do fine by me. The statement I am trying to make is- The rules were changed, a team was not sent to 3DI and participation fell in all three Male stick classes. I have purposely left Female Trad and Youth Trad out because they normally don't participate in the 3DI.
I thank you for the work that the IBO did to establish the 3DI. I also thank you for the Traditional practice ranges at the NTC & World. I know it was much appreciated by the stick shooters. I also want to apologize to Judy my comments were not directed at her. I just wanted to say that as a participant in probably half the national or world shoots the last three years I was not asked to fill out the poll. Even though it would not have mattered to me about the changes it would have been nice to have been asked.
05-18-2008, 09:41 PM
#27
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
Ok here we are in the 2008 season and Bedford is over. Let's look at the participation this year: RU- 9 shooters down from 15 in 2007, TRD-20 shooters down from 27 in 2007 LB-12 shooters up from 9 in 2006. What is the difference between 2007 & 2008, well $4/gal gas and LB went back to 25 yards as their max. Now the really funny thing is in 2006 there were 21 RU shooters. From 2006 to 2008 there has been roughly a58% decrease in the number of shooters. Oh well let's see what Erie, Nelsonville and the World brings.
06-16-2008, 07:41 PM
#28
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 50
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
Wow was the overall turnout that bad? I am not sure but I believe this is a record low turnout for the stick classes. LB had 3, TRD had 17 and RU had 5. Last years turnout was bad but LB had 6, TRD 19 and RU had 8. I guess the $4 gas is going to kill what is left of the "stick" classes.
06-17-2008, 03:51 PM
#29
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
one possible reason for the low traditional turn out other than $4 gas is that alot of people went to the Traditional Archery Nationals in Cloverdale,IN. the gentleman who won LB class at Bedford did not go to Erie. He went to cloverdale. several guys that i know passed up Erie to do the same thing. I myself shot erie all on friday and was going to go to Cloverdale but didn't because of bad weather.
Maybe if the erie shoot wasn't the same weekend as Cloverdale there might be a few more trad shooters. last year Erie and cloverdale where on different weekends. i went to both.
Alot of guys I know love to bowhunt but could care lees about the IBO. The IBO has a reputation of not being trad friendly. i agree with this. look how many times in the past 4 years or so that the IBO has screwed around with the rules for the trad classes.
Maybe if the erie shoot wasn't the same weekend as Cloverdale there might be a few more trad shooters. last year Erie and cloverdale where on different weekends. i went to both.
Alot of guys I know love to bowhunt but could care lees about the IBO. The IBO has a reputation of not being trad friendly. i agree with this. look how many times in the past 4 years or so that the IBO has screwed around with the rules for the trad classes.
06-18-2008, 02:40 PM
#30
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 81
RE: IBO rule changes due to 3DI
I LOVE TO HUNT AND TO COMPETE, SHOOTING CLOVERDALE MIGHT HELP ME HUNT BUT IT SURE WON'T HELP ME TO COMPETE. I'VE HEARD STORIES FROM PEOPLE THAT HAS SHOT CLOVERDALE (I HAVEN'T) OF SCORES THAT WERE TO GOOD TO BE TRUE (SHARP PENCIL). AS FOR RULE CHANGES, CHANGES CAN BE GOOD BECAUSE THE MAKE YOU WORK HARDER TO BE AT THE TOP OF YOUR GAME.
JUST MY OPINION
JIM
JUST MY OPINION
JIM