brilliant idea at Bedford?????
05-23-2007, 07:33 PM
#21
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
The things that got out of hand were from IBO reps on here and some others I don't know who they are which tells me that they don't want to answer anything on here for all to see.
Why is it so difficult to get an honest answer on here from the IBO people?
I just keep getting responces that are trying to make me out to be the bad guy, why is that? Maybe I am right in asking? I think I am.
If I go to Erie to shoot I will introduce myself to you and anyone else you want me to. I will definitely be at the world, so if not erie or nelsonville then definitely at the worlds.
Now what about my questions?
Maybe Ken Watkins can respond on here beacause on the phone it would be only for my ears not for all members to see, especially the others who have the same questions I have. If I call him and they post what he said here it will just be another here say event.
Why is it so difficult to get an honest answer on here from the IBO people?
I just keep getting responces that are trying to make me out to be the bad guy, why is that? Maybe I am right in asking? I think I am.
If I go to Erie to shoot I will introduce myself to you and anyone else you want me to. I will definitely be at the world, so if not erie or nelsonville then definitely at the worlds.
Now what about my questions?
Maybe Ken Watkins can respond on here beacause on the phone it would be only for my ears not for all members to see, especially the others who have the same questions I have. If I call him and they post what he said here it will just be another here say event.
05-24-2007, 09:06 AM
#24
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 58
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
One fact that is getting misconstrued, although not completely said, is that the slow person's groupyou keep referring to is assumed to be a pro. The person's groupthat keeps popping up as to causing the problem isn't a pro and doesn't shoot in a pro class. I haven't seen any names of any pro shooters in the thread.
05-24-2007, 01:17 PM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Vermilion OH USA
Posts: 426
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
I willtry and answer a few things.
1. Name tags at shoots? When someone is made a rep or added to the IBO Board they recieve a name tag. Many, wear them often. Some do not.
I have lost several of them and not worn one for a few years. I will order one so folks can know whoI am.
But we have not instituted a penalty for not wearing them.
2. Not all the pros and or semi pros went toC &D on Sunday. Those five classes were broken up over (I believe) four ranges utilizing each range combination.(abcd / efgh / ijkl) It might have been five. The range assignments and the subsequent distribution of classes will be reviewed carefully before Gem City. The distribution may reflect one or another pro class being on any range combination, (or not)for Sunday. The breakdowns of classes on range combinations are based upon numbers in the classes from previous events.
If you want to, you can blame this brilliant idea on me.
I think this is the third year that we have done this in the Triple Crown. Again, it will be reviewed carefully before Gem City.
Ihope that answers the two questions that you pointed out.
I do also want to answer a couple other things.Bluejacket was at that check station.I know that for sure.Whether he was in the tent at the time you specify I do not know. He could have been talking to a group. He could have been in the restroom. I don't know that.
I also know,that you did not file any protest at the check station. That is where something should be made known in order that something can andwould be done. Any speculation about what would have been done after that is just that, speculation.
As Gene said, any of thoseIBO officials are on the other end of the radiosfrom each check station.
As far as you quoting something I said on a radio aover twoyears ago, I can only guess andwonder at an explanation of any situation over the radios that would be to the extentof what you say it was.IfI did say something like that,your frienddeserves an apology. If you let me know hisname I willapologize.
ken12
1. Name tags at shoots? When someone is made a rep or added to the IBO Board they recieve a name tag. Many, wear them often. Some do not.
I have lost several of them and not worn one for a few years. I will order one so folks can know whoI am.
But we have not instituted a penalty for not wearing them.
2. Not all the pros and or semi pros went toC &D on Sunday. Those five classes were broken up over (I believe) four ranges utilizing each range combination.(abcd / efgh / ijkl) It might have been five. The range assignments and the subsequent distribution of classes will be reviewed carefully before Gem City. The distribution may reflect one or another pro class being on any range combination, (or not)for Sunday. The breakdowns of classes on range combinations are based upon numbers in the classes from previous events.
If you want to, you can blame this brilliant idea on me.
I think this is the third year that we have done this in the Triple Crown. Again, it will be reviewed carefully before Gem City.
Ihope that answers the two questions that you pointed out.
I do also want to answer a couple other things.Bluejacket was at that check station.I know that for sure.Whether he was in the tent at the time you specify I do not know. He could have been talking to a group. He could have been in the restroom. I don't know that.
I also know,that you did not file any protest at the check station. That is where something should be made known in order that something can andwould be done. Any speculation about what would have been done after that is just that, speculation.
As Gene said, any of thoseIBO officials are on the other end of the radiosfrom each check station.
As far as you quoting something I said on a radio aover twoyears ago, I can only guess andwonder at an explanation of any situation over the radios that would be to the extentof what you say it was.IfI did say something like that,your frienddeserves an apology. If you let me know hisname I willapologize.
ken12
05-24-2007, 08:08 PM
#26
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
Thanks, finally some answers.....it took all that to get them.
ohio3der as far as the pros not shooting course C and D, the only classes assigned to those courses were the HC and MBR and the group that was very slow was using equipment meant for the open class style shooters, long stabilizers were the evident feature that stood out. In the MBR class or HC, long stabilizers are not allowed, 12" max. Whether they were pros or semi-pros, which they had to be one or the other, there was an IBO rep in that group. If they were not pros or semi-pros them they were shooting the wrong course.
About me not filing a protest, as mentioned above, I have spoken to others about the protests and unless things have changed recently the others have felt that a protest goes unresolved or never addressed, whether that is true or not now days I cannot answer that. I do know that it should be ok to come on here and express your concerns and issues, hence the definition of a forum. I base my speculation on fellow archers comments and the history established with the way things were handled in the past, but yes it is speculation.
Without the freedom of a forum it makes it a lot more difficult to get the word out and give others who normally would not say something for fear of being ridiculed, a chance to give their views and there are people out there like that, they will not say anything until someone else speaks up first.
Just because I didn’t file a protest doesn’t mean that the issues should not be brought to light. Look at it this way, I have given some shooters some insight about time limits and now it is more evident to those who read this post that it won’t be tolerated and they do have options if they see abuse. In addition, the shooters I have been speaking of now have a chance to fix the time issue before Erie without a protest on file about them now, sort of like another chance, but if I see it at Erie, Nelsonville, or the worlds I will definitely be visiting the IBO officials with a protest in hand.
Ken, I will make it a point to get with you either at Erie, Nelsonville, or the worlds and introduce myself and we can discuss some things.
I have my answers, I have expressed my opinion and passed on the facts, so as far as I am concerned this issue is closed to me.
Good night and have a good weekend and Memorial Day and remember those protecting us under the umbrella of freedom we all sleep under each night, our armed forces.
ohio3der as far as the pros not shooting course C and D, the only classes assigned to those courses were the HC and MBR and the group that was very slow was using equipment meant for the open class style shooters, long stabilizers were the evident feature that stood out. In the MBR class or HC, long stabilizers are not allowed, 12" max. Whether they were pros or semi-pros, which they had to be one or the other, there was an IBO rep in that group. If they were not pros or semi-pros them they were shooting the wrong course.
About me not filing a protest, as mentioned above, I have spoken to others about the protests and unless things have changed recently the others have felt that a protest goes unresolved or never addressed, whether that is true or not now days I cannot answer that. I do know that it should be ok to come on here and express your concerns and issues, hence the definition of a forum. I base my speculation on fellow archers comments and the history established with the way things were handled in the past, but yes it is speculation.
Without the freedom of a forum it makes it a lot more difficult to get the word out and give others who normally would not say something for fear of being ridiculed, a chance to give their views and there are people out there like that, they will not say anything until someone else speaks up first.
Just because I didn’t file a protest doesn’t mean that the issues should not be brought to light. Look at it this way, I have given some shooters some insight about time limits and now it is more evident to those who read this post that it won’t be tolerated and they do have options if they see abuse. In addition, the shooters I have been speaking of now have a chance to fix the time issue before Erie without a protest on file about them now, sort of like another chance, but if I see it at Erie, Nelsonville, or the worlds I will definitely be visiting the IBO officials with a protest in hand.
Ken, I will make it a point to get with you either at Erie, Nelsonville, or the worlds and introduce myself and we can discuss some things.
I have my answers, I have expressed my opinion and passed on the facts, so as far as I am concerned this issue is closed to me.
Good night and have a good weekend and Memorial Day and remember those protecting us under the umbrella of freedom we all sleep under each night, our armed forces.
05-25-2007, 08:00 PM
#27
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location:
Posts: 58
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
Hey Mr. Pfiermka, since you quoted me, I'm going to quote you now. 
Quote: ohio3der as far as the pros not shooting course C and D, the only classes assigned to those courses were the HC and MBR and the group that was very slow was using equipment meant for the open class style shooters, long stabilizers were the evident feature that stood out. In the MBR class or HC, long stabilizers are not allowed, 12" max. Whether they were pros or semi-pros, which they had to be one or the other, there was an IBO rep in that group. If they were not pros or semi-pros them they were shooting the wrong course. End Quote.
Mike Shepherd shoots Masters Class Bow Hunter (MCBH), not pro.If you don't believe me, look up his score. So they must of had more than just pros and HC/MBR on the course. Evidently they also had at least MCBH too.
Also, open and the pros aren't the only long stabilizers out there. And, your comment above saying that MBR uses 12" or shorter stabs is incorrect. MBR can use a long stabilizer, it's in the rules. As a matter of fact, MBO, MSR, MCBH, MBR, MBF, SPM, PMR, PMF, MCU, YF, YMR 13-14 and YMR 15-17 all use long stabilizers. I think that's all of them, male classes anyways. So long stabilizers aren't just "equipment meant for open class style of shooting".
Later Ken,
Jeremiah.
Oh by the way, I found my super peeps!! And,did you find anyone to ride up to Erie with yet? I may have found some guys thatcould use another in their party to split the dreaded gas expenses. I'll send you an email if I hear more.
Quote: ohio3der as far as the pros not shooting course C and D, the only classes assigned to those courses were the HC and MBR and the group that was very slow was using equipment meant for the open class style shooters, long stabilizers were the evident feature that stood out. In the MBR class or HC, long stabilizers are not allowed, 12" max. Whether they were pros or semi-pros, which they had to be one or the other, there was an IBO rep in that group. If they were not pros or semi-pros them they were shooting the wrong course. End Quote.
Mike Shepherd shoots Masters Class Bow Hunter (MCBH), not pro.If you don't believe me, look up his score. So they must of had more than just pros and HC/MBR on the course. Evidently they also had at least MCBH too.
Also, open and the pros aren't the only long stabilizers out there. And, your comment above saying that MBR uses 12" or shorter stabs is incorrect. MBR can use a long stabilizer, it's in the rules. As a matter of fact, MBO, MSR, MCBH, MBR, MBF, SPM, PMR, PMF, MCU, YF, YMR 13-14 and YMR 15-17 all use long stabilizers. I think that's all of them, male classes anyways. So long stabilizers aren't just "equipment meant for open class style of shooting".
Later Ken,
Jeremiah.
Oh by the way, I found my super peeps!! And,did you find anyone to ride up to Erie with yet? I may have found some guys thatcould use another in their party to split the dreaded gas expenses. I'll send you an email if I hear more.
05-25-2007, 08:15 PM
#28
Thread Starter
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 17
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
I was wrong about the stabilizers and I apologize. I should have looked that up.
Mr Shepherd shot Masters Class Bow Hunter (MCBH) on friday and saturday and he finished on saturday, he shot with a friend of mine, thats how I know. Even so, If he was in the MGBH class why was he on a course for MBR and HC, and then the pros on Sunday? His course was elsehwere.
So was he shooting Sunday just for the fun of it? If so then he should have waited because there were shooters that needed to finish.
Am glad you found your peeps...where were they?
and I don't remember quoting you?????????
About Erie I haven't decided if I am going or not. I am going down to Ross County Bowhunters to shoot the Slunger Hollow Trophy Shoot next weekend. I will let you know about Erie.
Mr Shepherd shot Masters Class Bow Hunter (MCBH) on friday and saturday and he finished on saturday, he shot with a friend of mine, thats how I know. Even so, If he was in the MGBH class why was he on a course for MBR and HC, and then the pros on Sunday? His course was elsehwere.
So was he shooting Sunday just for the fun of it? If so then he should have waited because there were shooters that needed to finish.
Am glad you found your peeps...where were they?
and I don't remember quoting you?????????
About Erie I haven't decided if I am going or not. I am going down to Ross County Bowhunters to shoot the Slunger Hollow Trophy Shoot next weekend. I will let you know about Erie.
05-26-2007, 03:09 PM
#29
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Paradise,oHIo
Posts: 2
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
pfiermka
You need to spend a little more timegetting your facts straight. MCBH did in factshoot on your courses Fri-Sun. Although Mr. Shepherd shot only on Sat.&Sun., He spent Fri. helping Ken Watkins set the stakes on the Pro ranges that they shot on Sat.
As far as the hold ups on your ranges, they didn't start with the group that Mr. Shepherd was in, there was a back up in front of their group also, You might have seen them at a target for a quite a while, but mostly they were waiting for the group in front of them to proceed so that they would havea chance to shoot the targetlike everybody else.
It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind with Mike S, or the IBO-if so maybe you should E-mail Mike or talk to him next week at Clinton Co.'s shoot.
You need to spend a little more timegetting your facts straight. MCBH did in factshoot on your courses Fri-Sun. Although Mr. Shepherd shot only on Sat.&Sun., He spent Fri. helping Ken Watkins set the stakes on the Pro ranges that they shot on Sat.
As far as the hold ups on your ranges, they didn't start with the group that Mr. Shepherd was in, there was a back up in front of their group also, You might have seen them at a target for a quite a while, but mostly they were waiting for the group in front of them to proceed so that they would havea chance to shoot the targetlike everybody else.
It sounds to me like you have an axe to grind with Mike S, or the IBO-if so maybe you should E-mail Mike or talk to him next week at Clinton Co.'s shoot.
05-26-2007, 06:06 PM
#30
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Avon Lake Ohio USA
Posts: 232
RE: brilliant idea at Bedford?????
So you see folks, this is why you should never publicly identify an individual and accuse them of wrong doing without going through the proper procedures. Sometimes what we believe to be facts involving a situation just aren't.
In this case we have;
[ol][*]An individual assumed to be either pro or semi because those were {factually} the onlyclasses on those ranges with long stabilizers. Wrong![*]MBR limited to a 12" stabilizer. Wrong![*]Ranges that only had HC and MBR shooters on them. Wrong![*]A shooter accused of finishing shooting on Saturday and then shooting again on these ranges Sunday for fun. Wrong![*]IBO officials unavailable. Wrong![*]Pro or semi groups being the cause of slow moving ranges. ?????? We have only identified amature groups to this point.[/ol]
But this is not just one person here,even Ifoolishly thought for a moment that I was one of three people in that check tent as shooters were coming off. I'm told that fact is wrong too. ( I hate it when that happens.)
There are some things which were brought up that weren't wrong. Not every director or state rep wears a name tag all of the time. Myself (the only person I can really speak for) when I'm shooting I usually don't wear one. 2 primary reasons; first the string catching on it while shooting is less than ideal, and second there are times when I want to be in discussions just as a shooter rather than an official. The information gathered this way is sometimes different. I do try to wear one whenever I am "officially" representing the IBO at any event. We could do better sometimes to identify an "IBO" presence and have talked about various ways to do that. We will keep trying.
Could Mike and/or his group have been shooting too slowly? It's possible, but no-one will ever know because the proper procedure was intentionally ignored apparently by those observing the actions. While I would love to believe that all of the information we receive is 100% correct, when it is compared to all of the "facts" listed above there is more than a little doubt. Mind you, all of this could have been easily handled without harm to any individuals reputation by following proper procedure. A conscious decision was made not to do that. It's a shame. In my opinion Mr. Shepherd is due a public appology for all of the not-so-factual statements made.
And Mike, IF YOU WERE exceeding the time limit, shooting on the wrong course, shooting a second round for fun, or sneaking out and shooting pro without properly registering as such, knock it off - you really should know better.
In this case we have;
[ol][*]An individual assumed to be either pro or semi because those were {factually} the onlyclasses on those ranges with long stabilizers. Wrong![*]MBR limited to a 12" stabilizer. Wrong![*]Ranges that only had HC and MBR shooters on them. Wrong![*]A shooter accused of finishing shooting on Saturday and then shooting again on these ranges Sunday for fun. Wrong![*]IBO officials unavailable. Wrong![*]Pro or semi groups being the cause of slow moving ranges. ?????? We have only identified amature groups to this point.[/ol]
But this is not just one person here,even Ifoolishly thought for a moment that I was one of three people in that check tent as shooters were coming off. I'm told that fact is wrong too. ( I hate it when that happens.)
There are some things which were brought up that weren't wrong. Not every director or state rep wears a name tag all of the time. Myself (the only person I can really speak for) when I'm shooting I usually don't wear one. 2 primary reasons; first the string catching on it while shooting is less than ideal, and second there are times when I want to be in discussions just as a shooter rather than an official. The information gathered this way is sometimes different. I do try to wear one whenever I am "officially" representing the IBO at any event. We could do better sometimes to identify an "IBO" presence and have talked about various ways to do that. We will keep trying.
Could Mike and/or his group have been shooting too slowly? It's possible, but no-one will ever know because the proper procedure was intentionally ignored apparently by those observing the actions. While I would love to believe that all of the information we receive is 100% correct, when it is compared to all of the "facts" listed above there is more than a little doubt. Mind you, all of this could have been easily handled without harm to any individuals reputation by following proper procedure. A conscious decision was made not to do that. It's a shame. In my opinion Mr. Shepherd is due a public appology for all of the not-so-factual statements made.
And Mike, IF YOU WERE exceeding the time limit, shooting on the wrong course, shooting a second round for fun, or sneaking out and shooting pro without properly registering as such, knock it off - you really should know better.
