Groups
 

I know pairing up shooters can by difficult, especially with the diversity on the women's course. For 20 out of the 40 I was paired with 2 cubs. I know smaller groups move faster, but I felt I was at a slight disadvantage. I always had to shoot first. I know this shouldn't matter, but I think we all have a tendency to use each others arrow as a guide.
Other than that it was a great day at Bedford.

RE: Groups
 

I agree. I also had to shoot 20 targets first every time. I think that rule either needs to be changed or the people at the scorer's table need to put at least two people from the farthest stake in a group. I thought that was why they were there putting us in groups. I personally thought the people working at my tent didn't have a very good idea about how everything worked. I saw a shooter try to get someone to sign of on their scorecards after 20 targets and the person at the tent said "Oh, we don't need to see your cards until you are done with all of them" I have always had to get my scorecards checked when I came off of a range!

RE: Groups
 

i know that technically, you are supposed to be busted, but if i were in a situation such as yours, i would opt to hang out at the check in tents until some folks from my class were there, and approach the table with them and hand over my cards. i feel your frustration. i have been in that boat before, luckily, i had another open shooter with me, so i shot first every other target.

RE: Groups
 

On Friday, I opted to hang out until someone from my stake(45 yds.), not necessarily from my class, came along after they tried to put me with all hunter class shooters(35 yds.). The two people at the tent acted like that was absolutely awful. But, oh well, I am the one that is competing, not them.
They could solve this problem by putting shooters who shoot the same stake on one course. Two different stakes at the most on one course, if need be. Then us shooters wouldn't have a problem finding someone who shoots at the same stakes as us.
I don't know if it was you that I saw illustr8, but I saw a girl shooting from the green stake shooting with cubs at the white stake. I felt for that shooter.
For as long as these shoots have been going on; I think this should not happen.
Also, groups still aren't being busted! They come along and say they are together and "wa la" they stay together. And I am not talking about the groups who decide to stay together after they have met each other and shot together the first day.
These problems need to be addressed and should have been addressed a long time ago. This is a competition, not a shoot for fun shoot.
I like the IBO and their shoots, but these problems are getting worse, not better. I truly hope the IBO officials find a solution for these problems soon! If these problems were fixed and I am sure most of them can be; IBO would be the a greater and better organization that would grow even bigger then they are now. Just my honest opinion. Good Luck IBO!

RE: Groups
 

I shot G & H with the 2 cubs (boy and girl). They were good kids and I didn't mind, especially since their mom was there.
I usually shoot with a group of guys around our local clubs. They are really good shooters and we use each others arrows.
The boy did feel sorry for me having to go first. So the last five targets he ran up and shot first. He was a pretty good shot. That ended up being my best set of 10.
I wouldn't want the job of putting the groups together, but I don't think they worried about anything but getting 3 or 4 people together and sending them out.

RE: Groups
 

Hope they can't figure out who you are because that was a bit of a no no. The table does the best they can with fairly inexperienced folks manning them. It is in your right to request to only shoot with a group of your own stakes. It might mean you wait longer, but you can asked to be placed that way.

RE: Groups
 

Why do you say that?

RE: Groups
 

I asked to be grouped with others shooting my stake and the people manning the tents were more than happy to do so. I had to wait a little longer to get grouped but didn't mind at all.

RE: Groups
 

I thought the people working the tents were supposed to be the ones that know what is going on!!! If you have someone that is new to the ibo, how are they supposed to know what is right and what is wrong? If someone is shooting for the first time and is made to shoot first every target, how likely is it that they will enjoy themself and want to come back?

RE: Groups
 

Try to keep in mind pretty much everyone you see helping with the shoot is a volunteer offering to help friends and family of the host clubs man the positions. Many of the shooters no doubt have a better understanding of rules and procedures and should step up with help and suggestions when they see it is needed. Reading threads after a major shoot makes me think that many IBO members could do a little more to support the organisation then paying dues and shoot fees. You get out what you put in.

Just my individual opinion.

Steve

RE: Groups
 

It should be the responsibility of the host club to make an effort to insure that each starting tent has qualified personnel to start and insure that the rules are understood. Volunteers are a great help but if they are not qualified to do the job completely then the host club should be willing to set that as a goal for next year. These problems are not new in most cases but the shooters who pay a higher entry fee for these shoots are entitled to and can expect that each year the shoot will be better. lStarting and finishing the shoot requires personnel that know with out question what is required and necessary for each shooter to follow the rules established by the IBO. Until many shooters register to shoot an IBO tournament they are not subjected to many of the problems at their clubs shoots. Most of the clubs around the country do not belong to the IBO and only a few of their members attend a National Shoot. New people and especially young shooters just getting started need special consideration. Leadership is the responsibility of the host club and setting up targets is only the begining of a tournment. Managing a shoot of this size should not depend on volunteers from outside the area. Overall the large majority leave these shoots having had a good expierence but each year fine tuning will always be needed to make the majority happy. Each year the overall majority are repeat entries from previous years and they expect to expierence more fun and good times but if they expierence the same small problems it may promote questions as to what went on during the year that did not address problems previously expierenced.
I'm sure that if people take time to inform the host club in writing or at the time of the shoot of what they think may need attention an honest effort will be made to correct things that many people have asked for.

RE: Groups
 

illuster8....

Here is why... "The boy did feel sorry for me having to go first. So the last five targets he ran up and shot first. He was a pretty good shot. That ended up being my best set of 10."

It is stated clearly in the rules that shooter must shoot from the longest stakes first then move forward to the next set.

Unfair advantage... we should all take a good shooting cub with us to mark the target and give us all a point of aim.... not to mention give us a point of reference along the path to the target to help in judging the yardage.

I am not here to start a fight with you, just saying you bent the rules a bit andI don't think it is wise to admit it on the web. If your name is in your profile they can find your name in the records and DQ your score. That's all.

RE: Groups
 

I did not ask him to do it. He was repaying the favor, since he had been using my arrow for 15 targets. I did not move up with him. I stayed at my stake.
Unless all the shooters in a group shoot from the same stake, someone is going to have an advantage.

RE: Groups
 

I had another member e mail me with similar thoughts. This was most of my response. Their questions are in red...


The cub was the one breaking the rules, who do you DQ?


Actually they all were as a group allowing it to happen more than just once. Yes the cub violated the rule by doing it and the rest of the group violated the sportsmanship rule as allowing it to continue for their benefit. Can't DQ anyone but the poster as they are the one out on the line here. Unless they were to come clean with who was shooting in the group if they remember. I sure can't remember the names of everyone I shot with on Friday or Saturday.
I've been in their shoes having to shoot every target first. It makes the game a bit more challenging.


here is the rule...
IV. SHOOTING RULES AND ETIQUETTE

A. SHOOTING ETIQUETTE

3. In a group that contains archers shooting from different stakes, the archers shooting from the farther stakes must shoot first.



In principal the group violated the rule in the sportsmanship, but could be argued differently....

F. TIE SCORES, UNSPORTSMANLIKE CONDUCT, AND MISC.
4. Un-sportsmanlike conduct will not be tolerated. Any action considered un-sportsmanlike by the host club or the IBO will be grounds for disqualification and/or suspension from membership. Examples of un-sportsmanlike conduct include, but are not limited to, the following:


a. Projecting any illuminated aiming point onto a target.



If the cub was a top shooter in his or her class who has the advantage if you are scoring well?

I have a cub shooting now and in the past. If I am shooting well it helps them to an extent, but considering the yardage they average 15 to 18 yards, with a few a bit longer, they can easily see the rings with the naked eye, much more so with the lens a larger number them are shooting now. So arrows in the target for them is less important except for glancing off other arrows as ours are at a bit of a different angle due to trajectory and such.

So I do understand why the cub did it. But doesn’t the group have the responsibility to point out the infraction to them, or did you as a group just say nothing and not report it thus taking advantage of an arrow where you wanted it projecting an aiming point?

This whole dialog shows why it important to ask to shoot within groups from the same stakes. You can ask at the table for this to happen as I did and others who have responded.

RE: Groups
 

Don't worry neither I or the cub made it in the top 20 of our classes.
I mostly shoot local clubs and never shoot with any other women. I was disappointed to not shoot with any other women. Next time I will ask to at least shoot with someone from the same stake.
It was just a suggestion. If I thought I was cheating or had an unfair advantage do you really think I would have posted that info?
By the way, just because you can see the rings on a target or an arrow in the target doesn't mean you can hit it.
I thought it was a really nice gesture and said a lot for the kid's sportsmanship.

RE: Groups
 

illustr8... No I don't think you had an idea what happened was improper. I wasn't trying to make you feel bad or uneasy, just pointing out what happened or could have. I shot your same courses from the greensand had two cubs with us as well and understand fully the additional distractions that come with the cubs... ours were very chatty and fidgety. It is too bad you didn't get a chance to shoot with the other women in your class. They are a great bunch and alot of fun to shoot with... my wife is one of them as well. Another poster made a great point is stand out side the tent for a second and look who is approaching. Catch them before they go in and put you cards in together. That will help get you with your peers.

RE: Groups
 

Illistr8,

Good answer, good attitude, good going with the cubs. Your point was on target about not knowing. I'm sure there will be some hard nose people that will say the rule is the rule but for me an important lesson was learned possibly by the cubs in their learning process about 3D Archery. This is still a game to the majority of the shooters and they enjoy more than just going to win a trophy or such. I would not want to do anything to change the young person's attitude or intentions as I am sure that they were his good heart showing..

Keep shooting and the more people that you can shoot with the more you will learn what the real game of archery is.