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Is This Trespassing????

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Is This Trespassing????

Old 12-17-2019, 03:17 PM
  #1  
Spike
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Default Is This Trespassing????

I bought an 11 acre tract of land this past February. It is sort of an elongated parcel coming to a point at the end with two other parcels of private land, sort of like this symbol <. There is a "road" that goes across my property line onto the neighbors and out to the natural gas pipeline. This is my first year hunting my newly acquired property and noticed that people drive on this pipeline with their four wheelers and side by sides. The pipeline is approximately 80 yards from my property line and can be a pain in archery season when people want to open it wide open on the pipeline. Needless to say I had an incident where a couple people were riding and making a commotion and used this road to come off the pipeline and cross my property line to the dirt road that takes you off the mountain to the main road. Would I be allowed to put a gate or chain across this section of road that is on my property? It may seem petty but from the corner stake to the nearest tree is about 20 feet in length and 5 feet worth of my property to my corner stake. I also met a young man and woman in a pick up truck while I was walking out (after dark) with a rifle in between them taking this road that crosses my property to ride on the pipeline and shine their light bar to look for deer. I'm new to this location and don't want to be that guy that rubs the neighbors the wrong way but I also do not want people using the road to take advantage of riding on the pipeline adjacent to my property to potentially poach deer and ruin a great hunting spot. Any thoughts? To note there is another main access road to the adjoining property with the pipeline on the other side of the neighbors property.

Thanks
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:51 PM
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Nontypical Buck
 
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I say you need to have your land researched, (preferably by a good layer that understands this stuff intimately and find out what is in the deed and rights of your land ownership
does the pipe line, or township have deeded right of way or likes!
as if so, you cannot legally BLOCK, as they would require access to it, pending wording, be it un restricted or ?? possible with a gate and you must provide a key to those that legally have to have access to it

NOW< do the average idiots have rights to use right of way
again,m can come down to township rules on ATV/UTV use, what the road is determined to legally be(access right of way, township road or??)
so quite honestly, NO one can answer your question about if its trespassing without knowing exactly what your deed says and what is actually YOURS on your land and what is, possibly a LEGAL easement to the pipe line, or a township deeded road/access or??
lots of important details needed to be addressed and known where before you can do anything like a gate or having anyone cited for trespassing!
and I can tell you RIGHT off, STOPPING These folks will NOT be easy, even IF the land is yours to gate legally
they will go around gates, cut locks off and other things, and you WILL be that GUY that they dis like real fast
BUT that doesn';t mean you should allow it either to happen!
it takes time, patience and COSTS you both time and money to STOP folks like this if they ARE trespassing
biggest problem with being a land owner is, dealing with trespassers IMO
or has been mine for past 30 yrs or more!
new one's show up constantly! it seems here, and having a STATE that does little to help, isn't helping here in PA!
so also, time to research your legal rights on BEST ways to convict and prosecute trespassers too, , what your legal deal is, on posting ,painting borders or?? to help STOP it in the first place and back it up when needed
and in MOST places where they been doing so for YRS or decades, you HAVE to make examples out of MANY of the locals to slow them down(doubt you will EVER stop them all)
but more you follow up on and take legal action on, the better the word gets out and helps stop SOME of the more honest one's!
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Old 12-17-2019, 04:30 PM
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Spike
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When we bought the property and sit down with the lawyer nothing was stated as far as easements or rights of ways. I do not know if this is a common thing that comes up in the closing or not but it was not in this case. I did get an old deed from the previous purchaser and of course I have the deed that was given to me and nothing states an easement. I'm sure it doesn't help that the previous owner said he had not been to the property in 18 years so the locals were pretty accustom to no one being there and now that I own it I'm there at least once a week. I can say since I talked to the young man that I have not seen them since but that doesn't mean they aren't there when I'm not. I did talk to one gentleman in the spring sort of getting to know each other but now I feel the intent was for him to find out who I was and where I'm from because every time I see someone they look at me as if I have 7 heads and 10 legs haha. I did have a strange "encounter" this past weekend while looking for a doe I had shot, one of the neighbors were coming out of their property and stopped for an extended period of time and watched me while I tracked the doe. Once I felt a little uneasy I politely turned and waved and they drove off. Didn't roll the window down to talk or ask if I needed help but just watched. Kind of weird to me. Once I find out for sure what I can and cannot do at this road I would like to put a chain up or gate it off. I'll probably be buying some stock in chain and gates for awhile but if it cuts back on people crossing there it may be worth it in the long run and if I can not do anything then I'll be dealing with it unfortunately. Would it be a good idea to call the landowner and ask if he has any information regarding the road or for me to do the research myself? Thanks for the response.
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Old 12-17-2019, 04:49 PM
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I would again advise getting a lawyer to find out and NOT rely on what the OLD landowner says, as that will NOT hold up in court and be hear say at best!

if you put a chain up and someone gets hurt(runs a atv into it not knowing its there) you can be legally liable for damages real fast and in legal issue's
so again, before installing any gates, I would be checking out legally what you CAN or cannot do
is a gate even legally allowed, do you need a permit to install one? what SPEC"S might one Have to be is=f again, the right a away goes to a pipe line
NOT all info will be easy to find or determine, as some times things are well, word of mouth
, an example, si, say a OLD land owner made an agreement and didn';t update deed to show it, your COPY of deed could be old and in accurate
youy need a land search dome on the LAND NOW< and what is, an what isn;t on it, and or allowed to it

if OLD deed was before pipe line, or likes, real fast you can get yourself into legal troubles by putting a gate up

as for your story
think of it this way, locals been using it and lands near it for yrs, NO one ever on the land due to as you stated OLD \land owner NOT on land in yrs
having a local se you STOP And stare, is rather a natural reaction to YOU NOW being on land NO one was on before!
they maybe trying to figure out WHO you are, WHY your there, NOT everyone will approach, and maybe best they DON"T
would you randomly approach folks you see on lands NOT your's??
could be asking for problems if you do?
not all land owners like being asked questions of why thereon there OWN lands! if you follow!

legal answers to legal questions, save you from LEGAL problems and costs!
your land, learn about it from a REAL source and not just hear say of a OLD owner
get a legal land research done on YOUR lands, find out all zoning, codes, easements, right always, and rules you have to follow!

them good old days of buying rural lands and JUST doing what you want are LONG gone!
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Old 12-17-2019, 05:51 PM
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We don't know what state you're in so the laws in your state could be substantially different than the laws in our state. Mrbb is giving you good advice about checking with a lawyer on any property rights/easements. You might also check with the county where your deed is recorded to see if they have any other documents regarding your property. And, you might want to check with your Fish and Game Dept to see what they say. Bit of legwork on your part but it's always wise to do your homework before you start fencing or calling the cops. That way you know what your rights are and can provide copies for any cops or wardens who respond to your property.
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Old 12-18-2019, 02:42 PM
  #6  
Spike
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Just an update for you fellers that gave me some good advice on this issue. I called the neighboring landowner about the road that goes across me and it is not a right away. From my understanding this "road" is not to be used by anyone and he does not want anyone on his property. He informed me that he put a chain across this road some time ago to keep people off but they cut the chain and lock down to use this road to ride the pipeline illegally. I will be putting signs across this road to start off and then see how this works since I am pretty frequent up there. I don't want to drop money on the chain or gate quite yet. Turns out he buys and sales land and tried to get me to buy the property I was asking about in a funny turn of events. Thanks for all the good advice on this issue.
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Old 12-18-2019, 04:20 PM
  #7  
Nontypical Buck
 
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I still say, I would talk to an attorney
over the yrs I have been told MANY things by land owners and sadly countless times they were wrong.
Many folks do things and DON"T know if there right or wrong, they rely on memory or how they FEEL things should be, and as such, many times, folks DON"T Know the legal details of things and can pass on BAD info, even when there intentions are meant to HELP
and it also sounds like my area, where you chain /gate a road and folks that live near by and have used land for decades or feel its there GOD given right to go where they please due to they LIVE there, HAD right of way or BLAH BLAH BLAH
they become self righteous and do as they please and it takes a LOT of effort on a land owners part to STOP them, or as many as you can and its NOT fun or easy!
so, again, you better be 100% in the sure before gating or even posting anything as a closed road , or your asking for trouble
as LOCALS will do damage to land when your not there, from dumping nails in drive ways, to other forms of vandalizing things left on site!

and again, GOD forbid, if an atv person doesn't see a chain or gate and its NOT legally allowed to be there, your opening the door to a major law suit.
you BOUGHT the land, pay ti find out what is legally your's and NOT on it, and KNOW before you do anything!

if it was as easy as blocking roadway, the other guy would have done so by now, as it sounds like he doesn;'t like atv 's riding there,
so Ask yourself WHY!

he buys and sells land, odds are he know's more than he is saying, or doesn;t want the grief that will come from the locals and wants you to do so, and him reap the rewards!
red flags here IMO!

maybe try talking to the pipeline folks and see what there 2 cents is, if your NOT wanting to pay for legal search to be done!

as again, BLOCK there access if they LEGALLY have it and you can find yourself in some fines or other money costing ways!
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Old 12-20-2019, 06:37 AM
  #8  
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I would take mrbb's advise, it is right-away for the pipeline and you block it you could wind up with a problem.
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Old 12-20-2019, 10:59 AM
  #9  
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Different states have rules for adverse possession. I personally know of a case here in Vt where verbal permission with no money paid was given for a deer camp on private farm land in 1952. The original land owner died and his kin folks allowed the camp to remain on good faith. Years later the farm was sold and the new land owner told the camp owners to either move the camp off his land or abandon it. The camp owners consulted an attorney and since they had documented proof that they had used the camp for the past 40 years each year they were told it could remain. The land was sold a few times and there were buildings built all around the camp. The original camp owners started to die off but couple of younger ones continued to access the road and drive into the camp. Eventually it got too difficult to access and the remaining campers got too old to deal with it. One year they didn't go to camp and then it was done. Ii am not sure what happened to the building which was pretty rough at that time.
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Old 12-20-2019, 01:24 PM
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Let us know what the attorney says. Be interesting to see if the neighbor's "red flags" amount to something or not. He might just be tired of dealing with the whole situation and just want to get out.
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