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Is This Trespassing????

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Is This Trespassing????

Old 12-24-2019, 04:25 PM
  #21  
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Merry Christmas everyone!!! I appreciate all the feedback on this issue from everyone. I have another question and maybe I have already asked this in prior posts and I just missed it. When we sit down with the attorney at closing and went over all the legal mumbo jumbo of everything with this property the only couple things that were brought up was that I could not timber the land for personal income and I can not have junk sitting around rusting away and such, when we went over these few things and went over the deed to the land, shouldn't an easement or right of way been something that was brought up in this legal sitting? I do have a map of the land as thundermug has mentioned in a prior post and there is nothing on this map that states or shows a right of way. There is no utilities that go back to this part of my property as the electric ends about half way the length of my 11 acre tract. I know there has been a lot of conversation about going to a lawyer to find this out but I feel (and maybe I'm wrong) that something as a right of way should have been brought up when we were going everything in the legal sitting of a lawyers office at closing. The public gravel road does not dead end on my property as the gravel road continues on beyond me and dead ends at another neighboring property. If it makes any sense to bring it up the "road" in question "starts" at my corner post on my property, goes out onto the pipeline itself and then meanders through the neighbors property and then joins another road which then takes it to the county road. I know its hard to visualize this stuff. I have done countless deed searches on the online indexes for this county and cannot find anything that states a right of way at this point.
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Old 12-24-2019, 04:52 PM
  #22  
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Merry Christmas kman-

The real issue here-and the point I think mrbb is attempting to make- is that none of us can actually answer your question. And you likely need to go the legal route to get the answers.

Should something like that have been brought up? Sure, but that doesn't mean it was.

I'll say this- having these "problems" is still better than not owning property.

My suggestion, as others have mentioned, is to find out for sure. And not trust what was said in prior meetings, not trust neighbors, etc. So the leg work, pay the money, etc to make sure that your bases are all covered.

And enjoy that land.

-Jake
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Old 12-24-2019, 05:29 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Kman1989 View Post
Merry Christmas everyone!!! I appreciate all the feedback on this issue from everyone. I have another question and maybe I have already asked this in prior posts and I just missed it. When we sit down with the attorney at closing and went over all the legal mumbo jumbo of everything with this property the only couple things that were brought up was that I could not timber the land for personal income and I can not have junk sitting around rusting away and such, when we went over these few things and went over the deed to the land, shouldn't an easement or right of way been something that was brought up in this legal sitting? I do have a map of the land as thundermug has mentioned in a prior post and there is nothing on this map that states or shows a right of way. There is no utilities that go back to this part of my property as the electric ends about half way the length of my 11 acre tract. I know there has been a lot of conversation about going to a lawyer to find this out but I feel (and maybe I'm wrong) that something as a right of way should have been brought up when we were going everything in the legal sitting of a lawyers office at closing. The public gravel road does not dead end on my property as the gravel road continues on beyond me and dead ends at another neighboring property. If it makes any sense to bring it up the "road" in question "starts" at my corner post on my property, goes out onto the pipeline itself and then meanders through the neighbors property and then joins another road which then takes it to the county road. I know its hard to visualize this stuff. I have done countless deed searches on the online indexes for this county and cannot find anything that states a right of way at this point.
I will take a stab at your question, regarding should a easement have brought up
and the simple answer is NO, or YES
look at this way, if the topic wasn't brought up maybe they just figured you knew and didn;t ask about it

I am sure NOT every zoning code or detail of the area was covered!
and odds are the reason behind the NO timbering for money??
is due to the way the land is classified for tax reasons
OR again, it could be just due to zoning laws
if again you DON"T know exactly why that just shows Lots of things most likely were NOT addressed in the closing on the property!
a property closing, is NOT the same thing as a deed research to tell you the details of the land.
details can be left out, or told, based on the questions being ask and again WHO is answering them!
think of this way, if you don;t ask, they MIGHT think you already know, or don;t care?
so, many folks don;t waste time giving more info than needed to get the job done and out of there, time as they say is MONEY!
and if things get done on land after there gone, it FALLS on you, NOT Them, so, honestly most don't care or worry!, that again falls on you!
unless they gave you something in writing that was WRONG!

and again, if there is a pipe line or electrical line RUN on your land, it stands a HIGH likely hood that the owners of the electric/pipe line, have a easement to access it, there NOT going to spend the time and money to install something they cannot get to when they need to!

and whether or not it runs full length of your land or NOT, doesn't matter,
MAYBE in the details they actually it in details that they can LATER ON< if need be, extend things!
say a land owner on other side of you need power, or they have to re route in the future or??
never know, as they say devil is in the details!
and the folks that build pipe lines and power lines, been in the game a LONG time, and have there details pretty rock solid and know it!

something you can also look into, on things, is , IF the road to the pipe line and or power lines was BUILT to access them, there could be HELP, assistance/MONEY< from them to help curb trespassing issue's
with them actually installing the gate
that is also something a lawyer can address for you, if it is a deeded access for them!
odds are they don';t want folks on there access road either as that can also open them up to frivolous law suits too!
many folks ride atv's and 4x4's and or?? on tower line roads and pipelines, and MOST ARE trespassing, many places the pipelines and power lines are OWNED by the company's that built them, and NOT even part of the land owner LAND
some lease right of ways, some again have it set up in deeds, where original land owner got PAID to allow.
but I know of very few land's that there is just plain FREE access to pipe lines or power lines, that a land owner can just CLOSE at will!
they built them lines, expecting again to have access 24/7 if need be!
and not having to track down a land owner to do so!
as said , we DON"T know all the details here, and sounds like neither do you(no disrespect meant by this)
so the BEST advice I can give is, FIND OUT< you made the investment, make a little more and cover your Butt!
or before doing anything find out!, I know money doesn;t grow on tree's and lawyers don;t do work for free often! IF at ALL, you pay one way or another LOL
but my experience has been its cheaper to have them find things out before doing, that paying them to fight in court!!
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Old 12-25-2019, 02:03 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by mrbb View Post
NO
you can TRY and have your property re zoned there is NO law that says they have to allow your request, and in most states it has to be legally filed and thru the local code dept and or government agency that handles this request, and they can allow or deny your your request
its NOT a god given right, just cause you want to make your land into smaller partials or the likes
many towns and such will NOT allow a request no matter how bad you want it or can afford it!
The point I was making was in your response that the adjoining landowner didn't have his property rezoned.
The neighboring landowner DID have it done by making the application. I never said the application couldn't be denied.

Bottom line is yes, you can try. If it gets approved, then you had your property rezoned. Just like the OPs neighbor had his property rezoned.
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Old 12-25-2019, 09:43 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by thundermug View Post
The point I was making was in your response that the adjoining landowner didn't have his property rezoned.
The neighboring landowner DID have it done by making the application. I never said the application couldn't be denied.

Bottom line is yes, you can try. If it gets approved, then you had your property rezoned. Just like the OPs neighbor had his property rezoned.
and MY point was the LAND OWNER didn;t re zone his, land, the township or what ever local authority did it
NOT him personally!

all he did was apply, petition, bubmit a request, for it to have been re zoned, and then up to them to allow or not!

just cause he is a real estate agent, doesn't give him the power to re zone anything, and wanted that to be clear!

its up to the laws and codes and IF a township/town, or who ever in charge of things, is WILLING to allow his request, which he most likely had to have filed BY an ATTORNEY on his behalf and go thru what ever proper steps, channels there are.

I just wanted that to be clear, so someone reading things doesn't think a real state agent can JUST rezone someone or ANY land owner can do so if they wish to!
properties these days are also getting a LOT harder to rezone and break into partials, due to many area's are getting over run with housing developments and its effecting things!
causing a LOT of older area's homes and properties to end up in VERY high tax area's where they didn;t have before and are trying to keep it that way for its residents that maybe moved there for this reason, or just been there for a century or more in family's and such!
and its also again becoming very hard to find places that have very few restrictions on what you can and cannot do, them good old days are getting to be thing of the past sadly!

as populations increase, and they start running/expanding things like city water lines and such, , even folks that have pre existing wells and septic systems that work fine are being FORCED into abandoning them and HAVING to hook up to city lines at costs to the residents, and went from having there own water to now forced to PAY for water and hook ups!
as just on example!
towns look at residents as revenue , more they can get off you the better in most towns anymore!, sad but true!
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Old 12-25-2019, 01:46 PM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by mrbb View Post
and MY point was the LAND OWNER didn;t re zone his, land, the township or what ever local authority did it
NOT him personally!
It's all semantics...

When someone says they had it done means they wanted it, and went the proper route to get it done.
When someone says they county had it done, it means the county wanted it done.

The OP never said the neighbor changed the zoning, he said the neighbor had it done.

It's petty arguing this so I will no longer reply, as you don't seem to understand this.
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Old 12-25-2019, 02:05 PM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by thundermug View Post
It's all semantics...

When someone says they had it done means they wanted it, and went the proper route to get it done.
When someone says they county had it done, it means the county wanted it done.

The OP never said the neighbor changed the zoning, he said the neighbor had it done.

It's petty arguing this so I will no longer reply, as you don't seem to understand this.
well first off l I am NOT arguing with you,, I am putting correct info down , so someone doesn't read and get BAD info! and get themselves in trouble or not know what all is required!

as they says, the EXACT details /wording and steps need to be followed , when dealing with deeds and property issues!
and the OP stated thous

The neighbor bought 500 acres a few years ago and zoned them out to sell down into smaller parcels. "
that can indicate that the OWNER DID IT and NOT the correct folks that did(be it the township, the county or who ever again is charge of this process and they can approve or deny the owners request)

as again' all a property owner can do is put in for a change of the properties classification, and its NOT a sure thing by any means!
many many places have been shot down on wishing to break up larger chunks of land for developers!!

SO, it has to be approved and granted per codes of the area and not as simple as just , filling a form and its done deal!

Last edited by mrbb; 12-25-2019 at 02:14 PM.
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Old 12-29-2019, 08:28 PM
  #28  
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If it ends onto a county road on the other side, you should have every legal right to block and post your property,
I would first drive some T post with No Trespassing signs in the middle of the road..Then gate it a couple week's later
Inform the gas line and give them a access Key if need be.
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Old 12-30-2019, 03:07 AM
  #29  
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I would not buy 11 acres if the timbering rights were reserved, that means at any time the person who owns the timber rights cam come onto the property and take any and all the trees they want, and any work and money you put into the land to create better deer habitat could be destroyed. All you would own is the land. If I were you I would look for a different property.

Last edited by Oldtimr; 12-30-2019 at 03:11 AM.
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Old 12-30-2019, 11:27 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by Oldtimr View Post
I would not buy 11 acres if the timbering rights were reserved, that means at any time the person who owns the timber rights cam come onto the property and take any and all the trees they want, and any work and money you put into the land to create better deer habitat could be destroyed. All you would own is the land. If I were you I would look for a different property.
I don't thinbk the old owner has timbering rights to the timber
its just, IMO
that the way TAXES are set up on this land, would NOT work for the NEW owner to timber it, I have never seen a deed where a previous owner held onto timber rights
BUT anything I gather is possible

I think for the OP< to timber for personal gains, he would just have to re classify the property, and then that would change the tax rules on it

OR there could be a zoning law saying there must be "X" many acres to be timbered too, odd law for sure, but

without seeing this deed in person, were all sort of guessing here to some degree!
and this just re firms to me why a LEGAL advisory is so important when dealing with land and there deeds!
small details and there exact wording can change things from what a normal person might think and what they might really be!
the older the deed the more so, as MAN some OLD deeds can be crazy to translate , due to many markers once used being GONE and or, lack of any real surveying have been down at time of draw up!
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