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Let's Mix a Little Psychology with Religious Spirituality

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Let's Mix a Little Psychology with Religious Spirituality

Old 06-26-2015, 10:53 AM
  #1  
Nontypical Buck
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Default Let's Mix a Little Psychology with Religious Spirituality

Today in the World Religions class the professor went over Freud's Id, Ego, and Super Ego belief:

Freud said the Id was where basic needs were met;

The Ego is your self-identity; and

The Super Ego was where you feel your role in society is.

He then asked which category religious spirituality falls into.

For you, where do you think if fits in, if you are a person of faith?

As usual, I will withhold my opinion and what my two other classmates that showed up to this final day of classes thought until after I get some responses.
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Old 06-26-2015, 11:39 AM
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IMO it depends on your degree of faith.

Basic faith feeds your soul, makes you content. You don't worry so much about what the scriptures actually say, you set your own rules to fit your own personal desires. IMO most fall into that category.

Step it up, you pay more attention to God and less to yourself, so it becomes more about your personal identity.

Full-bore, you work to convert others, become a teacher or preacher, etc.

That's the short, simplified version. My opinion of course.
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Old 06-26-2015, 06:13 PM
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I tend to think of it differently, spirituality is as much a part of our genetic makeup as thumbs are. Some of mankind's oldest relics are spiritually significant.

I think as soon as mankind learned to reason, they realized there where many things in the world they didn't fully understand. Something beyond our basic five senses. Something people have been trying to explain as long as their has been people.

Some people seem more attuned to this spirituality and want to share their revelations as well as the vocabulary allows.

As far as personal beliefs, I believe much of the message gets lost in translation. Many religions IMO tend to focus on the micro instead of the macro. I'm a traditionalist by nature, our traditions are our roots.

I think Freud paid a little too much attention to levels of consciousness and not enough attention to the brains physiology. The brain is a collection of parts that have been added as mankind matured. There is a lot of crossover, spirituality is deep seeded and IMO near the primal parts. Which doesn't make it wrong or even undesirable, it is likely a major part in our maturation. We wouldn't be what we are without it. Reason has it's place, but way down somewhere *near* the basic parts of our brains IMO resides spirituality. And is likely more relevant to who we are today than physics is.

Much of the argument is, which is more important (significant), front brain or back brain. IMO they are probably going to work better together, without some sort of manufactured conflict.

And lastly, just opinion, if your reason tells you there is nothing beyond your five senses, you are likely IMO delusional. Sometimes it isn't what you say it is, it is what it is.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:14 PM
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Hopefully your instructor also expressed how so many of Freuds stuff is no longer considered accurate. Will have to think more on this though to give it an actual go, currently at the ER with kids but looks like hives so will have more time later.

LBR, you should look into Maslow's hierarchy of needs. Sounds similar to your explanation.
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Old 06-26-2015, 07:22 PM
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A little time came earlier then expected, religion and faith for me falls under super ego. My view is based on me taking Psychology this semester so I am also learning these same concepts. The thing is our class is teaching that super ego is where Freud thinks your conscience and morality reside.
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Old 06-27-2015, 03:40 AM
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Originally Posted by olsaltydog View Post
A little time came earlier then expected, religion and faith for me falls under super ego. My view is based on me taking Psychology this semester so I am also learning these same concepts. The thing is our class is teaching that super ego is where Freud thinks your conscience and morality reside.
That pretty well states it. The Id is the home of your primal urges and needs. If I'm hungry, I see food, I take it and eat it. the Ego reconciles the urges of the Id with reality. If the food belongs to someone else and he will attack if I take, then the Ego tells me to refrain. the Superego is basically your conscience containing the moral teachings you have received. It says that there is right and wrong and it would be wrong to take the food even if I could get away with it.

Religion could involve either the Ego or the Superego. If you refrain from committing an act because you fear some sort of punishment from God, then that would be the Ego working. On the other hand, if you do the right thing because of the teachings of your religion regarding morality without regard to fear of punishment, then that would be the Superego working.

I suppose there could also be some influence from both.
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Old 06-27-2015, 07:01 AM
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Originally Posted by sachiko View Post
That pretty well states it. The Id is the home of your primal urges and needs. If I'm hungry, I see food, I take it and eat it. the Ego reconciles the urges of the Id with reality. If the food belongs to someone else and he will attack if I take, then the Ego tells me to refrain. the Superego is basically your conscience containing the moral teachings you have received. It says that there is right and wrong and it would be wrong to take the food even if I could get away with it.

Religion could involve either the Ego or the Superego. If you refrain from committing an act because you fear some sort of punishment from God, then that would be the Ego working. On the other hand, if you do the right thing because of the teachings of your religion regarding morality without regard to fear of punishment, then that would be the Superego working.

I suppose there could also be some influence from both.
Religion could be front brain, but in my opinion is intertwined with spirituality, which IMO isn't a front brain process, but resides very near emotion and maybe even intuition.

An anecdote. I was driving a highway, two lanes each side, high speed motorway. I typically drove this curve daily at around 120 MPH on my motorcycle (legal here). When I had a vision (for lack of a better word), a mental picture of a tire carcass laying in the fast lane around a long blind curve. My first impulse was to ignore it, thinking it was just a random thought, then it became more persistent. I slowed down and moved to the right lane, came around the curve and there was that tire I had envisioned laying in the fast lane. Explain it, I can't. The Holy Ghost? Whatever it was saved my bacon. It came from a part of my brain that is definitely not super ego, definitely not ego and unlikely to be ID, because it was an external message to me. Where it came from and how it was delivered are a mystery and IMO a mystery religion attempts to explain.

Somebody should maybe tell Freud (LOL) that the individual isn't the center of his or her universe and sometimes your *personal* levels of consciousness are not the tell all, end all.

People who discount spiritualism and/or religion may be doing themselves a disservice. You may be training yourself to not answer the phone when somebody calls, it may be fatal.

People have been trying to categorize it and explain it as long as their have been people, with varying degrees of success.

IMO the better choice may to try and embrace it, I guess we can call this faith. Instead of trying to quantify it.

Not the first time something like that has happened to me, just one of the most profound examples. I think I'll accept the traditional explanation, for lack of a better explanation.

Last edited by MudderChuck; 06-27-2015 at 07:04 AM.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:01 AM
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Getting back to Freud, his ideas are not really part of modern day behavioral science. They are mentioned in classes mostly out of historical interest.

But what is interesting is that his organization seems to be built in, innate, rather than learned through the process of evolution of the human species. My religion itself, has very little in the stipulation as to what are right or wrong behaviors. There are cleansing rituals to purify oneself, and your place in the afterlife is affected by your behavior in this physical existence, but little in the way of rules.

We learn right and wrong by studying the traditions handed down from our ancestors. But similarly to Freud, these categories seem to be part of our nature, imposed therein by the creator kami as part of the design of the natural world. The fact that these patterns of behavior have evolved as we have evolved physically is part of the process, a continuing process, designed and set in motion by the creator kami.
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Old 06-27-2015, 08:37 AM
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Take Freud out of the picture and look at it as: Is your religious spirituality a part of your basic needs, self identity, or role in society? Some could reasonably argue one or the other, or a combination of two or more.

Personally, since my basic needs are those needs for self preservation and to me my religious beliefs give me eternal life, I consider my spirituality to be part of my basic needs for eternal preservation.
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Old 06-27-2015, 10:27 AM
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To me this physical world and the spiritual world are interwoven even though the spiritual world may not be sharply perceptible or may not be perceptible at all to some.

When I prepare food, I am not only meeting the physical needs of my family and myself, but I am becoming a part of kami by fulfilling the role ordained for me by the creator kami.

Likewise, a husband and wife have a biological connection which they satisfy, but at all times they are together, with their children, a spiritual fulfillment and, to that extent, become kami, in the way that was determined by the creator kami before this world existed.

Our ancestors are closer to kami and are there to guide us if we are not too proud to ask for guidance.

This is all difficult to fit into Freud's construct.
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