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DEER COUNTING
DID ANYONE HEAR ABOUT ANYTHING ON THE COMPANY THAT IS COMING OUT TO COUNT THE DEER IN PA. TO DETERMINE THE AMOUNT OF DOE TAGS AND THE SEASON LENGTH IN PA.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
yea greek i heard about that on the news a few days ago. the company is from minn. i think. there going to use helicopers and some kind of heat sensors to count them. i am still trying to find out more information about it, but right now thats all i know. you whould think the pgc whould post something about it. its not good when pa has to use heat sensors to count deer, a spot light and a tank of gas was all you needed 5 years ago. lol peace
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RE: DEER COUNTING
The aerial counts started this past weekend. I hope whoever is conducting the tests are quailified and that the equipment can tell the difference between deer and coyotes or even people out walking around.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
Are they going to post the count numbers as they start to do this? I also wonder what areas of the state they are going to cover. They can't cover the entire thing of course, I just hope they hit those areas that seem to have fewer deer and not just the heavily populated areas trying to support their case of more doe tags.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
Fish and Game in Delaware did night counts with copters last summer. There was a State park few miles down road they flew over. Showed some real skewed ratios. They did the counts before they finalized the 2004 Deer regs.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
What do you mean by skewed ratios? You don't mean doe/buck do you, I wouldn't think they could tell from a copter.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
MY QUESTION IS HOW DO THEY KNOW THERE NOT COUNTING THE SAME DEER OVER AND OVER AND OVER AGAIN BECAUSE YOU KNOW HOW 1 DEER WILL TURN INTO 10
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RE: DEER COUNTING
First off, the company is from Idaho. You can check them out on their webpage. Vision Air Research
The know what they are doing, unlike a lot of posters here. Where do you guys get your information?? Do a little research on the topic before making any assumptions. VAR is using the same technology that the Army uses in the video(s) that we have all watched as they bomb terrorist in the hills of Afghanistan. They can tell the difference between a deer and a coyote and even people. DCNR will be releasing topo maps on the web showing the results of the inventory... ONCE IT IS DONE. DCNR has no information from the contractor at this time. There are a number of newspaper articles on the aerials being done. Here is just one of them. "We can see dogs, we can see a deer's ear, we can tell what's a puddle, what's a stick, what's a rock," said Susan Bernatas, president and founder of Boise-based Vision Air Research. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
I heard that they scan the landscape in a very deliberate grid system and then enter the results in a computer and the actual deer numbers are figured. that's what I heard anyway. They can supposedly differentiate between the different animals.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
livbucks,
The utilize GPS to determine their flight paths. Using airplanes not helicopters. The plane flys just fast enough that it does not stall out (as slow as it can go with out falling from the sky). Video is recorded during the flight and is georeferenced (they know the location via GPS). The deer numbers are determined simply by counting the number of deer they see. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
They used a Helicopter in Delaware (unless my reliable source was incorrect). I was asked last summer (kiddingly) if I wanted to go up on a night count in copter. My wife works for State Parks and F&W is down the hall.
There were at least two F&W public meetings last year on QDM and 2004 proposed Deer seasons. These night counts were brought up at one of the meetings. Unless I'm getting old and goofy(possible) I'm sure it was a copter. Anyway - whether it be a plane or copter it sounds like a reliable method to conduct a Deer count. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
and when they are all done wasteing more $ guess what???? The PGC will come out with a statement there are too many deer in some sections of Pa...WOW! that's a shocker!!! ...then they'll increase the entire state's doe permits to try and harvest more of the "inbalance" as they call it, with little or no regard to areas of the state that weren't counted as they are UNDER populated currently
Some posters would be doing themselves a great justice to quite swallowing all the PGC's propoganda an open their eyes to common sense! |
RE: DEER COUNTING
uly,
The PGC isn't doing the aerial survey and they are not paying for it either. On HuntingPA the state forester heading up the project is answering the questions about the project and guess what else, he's a deer hunter. They won't have any information until Visual Air Research is done so don't believe what your buddies tell you. They're clueless. Common sense isn't so common. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
T: show me where I said the PGC WAS paying for the count, WHAT I DID write was the PGC would issue a statement about the results of the count then proceed with the kill offs at the same rate with no regard of the count.
I also made a statement as to how some people seem to swallow every piece of propoganda the PGC puts in print as if it were the Holy Grail. U |
RE: DEER COUNTING
and when they are all done wasteing more $ guess what???? The PGC will come out with a statement there are too many deer in some sections of Pa...WOW! that's a shocker!!! ...then they'll increase the entire state's doe permits to try and harvest more of the "inbalance" as they call it, with little or no regard to areas of the state that weren't counted as they are UNDER populated currently show me where I said the PGC WAS paying for the count Why would the PGC issue the results? It is not their project. Do yourself a favor. Attend the presentation Merlin Brenner will be doing at the HuntingPA campout the weekend of June 11-13 at Tioga-Hammond Lakes, Tioga County. Merlin is heading up the aerial survey project. Get some facts before spouting off mis-information, assumptions and rumors.....again. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
Did any of you find out why they called off the counting in 2G, could it be they could not find enough deer to count?
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RE: DEER COUNTING
taking for granted "they" meant the PGC when actually I was responding to a post about the firm that is doing the count which if history repeats itself THEY will do once again Do not jump to any assumtions as to my knowledge of deer management in Pa as I shall deem that a personal attack and bring it to AJ's attention Did any of you find out why they called off the counting in 2G, could it be they could not find enough deer to count? To quote the Project Manager, Merlin Brenner: Flights don't occur when the FLIR detector doesn't work because of snow, rain, or fog. High winds and low visibility cancel flights also. The contractor has been flying every good day. So far, as of yesterday, they completed the following tracts: - Delaware State Forest arount Promised Land (Pike Co) - Susquehannock State Forest between Denton Hill & Lyman Run (Potter Co) - Tioga State Forest around Fahneystock Rd and around Arnot (Tioga Co) - Tiadaghton State Forest around Algerine Wild Area and around McIntyre Wild Area (Lycoming Co) As I stated before, we only get numbers after the tapes are reviewed. With some bad weather days likely for flying the next few, I expect some data from the first area this week (can't fly = analysis time). DCNR has received NO indication of the number of deer found on ANY flight so far. And we prefer it that way, so we can remain objective and free of criticism (valid criticism, anyway). |
RE: DEER COUNTING
T IF YOU SEE MY FIRST POST I WANTED TO KNO IF ANYONE HEARD ANYTHING AND THE OTHER QUESTION IS HOW DO THEY KNOW ITS NOT THE SAME DEER OVER AND OVER AGAIN THATS ALL I WANT TO KNOW I KNEW THE COMPANY WAS OUT OF STATE DIDN'T KNOW WHERE AND A PLAN IS MORE QUIET THEN A HELICOPTER WOULD BE.... WELL THANKS FOR THE LINK TO THE WEB SITE
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RE: DEER COUNTING
I JUST READ THE LINK IT SAYS THAT THE TYPE OF LAND AND THE COVER CAN REALLY PLAY A PART IN THE COUNTING OF THE DEER SEAMS TO ME THAT THIS MIGHT NOT BE SUCHA GOOD IDEA I MEAN CAN A MILLION HUNTERS BE WRONG ABOUT NOT SEEING DEER....................
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RE: DEER COUNTING
I read somewhere they can account for 90% of the deer. It was in one of the many articles out there on this topic. Granted, there will always be a +/- factor in deer but this is the best thing out there and it is pretty darn good. The plane doesn't disturb the deer so at least they are not running from the plane from one flight path to another and being counted repeatidly.
The did this same count at Raystown where deer sightings were low, according to hunters, during the season. They found something like 50 deer per forested square mile after the seasons were over. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
I read somewhere they can only give an estimate that runs less than 50% of accurate, it was in one of the many articles written against the count.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
Interesting thought Greek, about a million hunters, but have to wonder where you got your numbers. If ya look at the most recent independent survey dealing with hunter's attitudes, (taken less than a year ago) you'll find that less than 25% of PA's hunters voiced dissatisfaction with our deer hunting, and only 10% of them even said they were strongly dissatisfied.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
If ya look at the most recent independent survey dealing with hunter's attitudes The doe hunters were very satisfied while they had the doe to shoot but now they will have to hunt Coyote's. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
ruffed you're running loose with a few figures on hunter's numbers. It is estimated by the PGC that less than 60% of back tag buyers hunt deer. Now do the math with that 10% figure of yours.....pretty steep amt. of hunters aren't happy with the deer situation in Pa.
** before some poster askes where I got this report from, go to the PGC's own site and look it up for yourself***** |
RE: DEER COUNTING
10% of 60% is and even smaller number where I come from.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
ORIGINAL: wingbar ruffed you're running loose with a few figures on hunter's numbers. It is estimated by the PGC that less than 60% of back tag buyers hunt deer. Now do the math with that 10% figure of yours.....pretty steep amt. of hunters aren't happy with the deer situation in Pa. ** before some poster askes where I got this report from, go to the PGC's own site and look it up for yourself***** I think you might have meant that only 60% hunt anterless deer since about 560K anterless tags were sold on the first round and quite of few deer hunters don't hunt doe. in 1985 98% of the hunters that responded to the PGN survey said they hunted deer. There is a new survey on page 2 of the Mar. 2005 PGN. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
ddear you are correct with what I meant and only 10% of those 560K had anything good to say about the PGC's management of deer...56,000 out of a 560,000 that leaves 504000 that are dissatisfied. Pretty sad ain't it?
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RE: DEER COUNTING
Whoops, ya got it backwards wingy
Right from the survey results: Are You Satisfied? For the most part, you feel positive about your hunting experiences. Seventy-nine percent of you were very or somewhat satisfied with your Pennsylvania hunting over the past two years. Only 10 percent were dissatisfied. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
The report is in three parts. First one has the info I mentioned about less than 25% being dissatisfied with deer hunting. They are all on the Responsive Management Website. Scroll down through their recent reports and you'll see the first two listed together and the Final report listed separately.
Has some interesting info on attitudes toward Sunday hunting as well for those that are interested, but already posted that a while back over in the Sunday thread. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
Page 14 of the March Game news says 79% are very or somewhat satisfied with only 10% not satisfied. That leaves 11% who cant make up their minds.
It also said on page 12 that 45% of hunters hunt primarily on private land. If we assume that every last private land hunter is happy, that would still leave 63 % of public land hunters as happy campers. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
BT now come on a second! I was giving you a tad of credit for intellect,but then you go an quote from a PGC publication on a matter of PGC public relations.......... hmmmmmm little wonder you think the way you do!
If you were a trout you'd have swallowed the PGC's baited hook right down to your gullet :) |
RE: DEER COUNTING
Can you please tell me when the survey was conducted?
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RE: DEER COUNTING
DD,
The survey was conducted last May. Wingy/Uly, ddear you are correct with what I meant and only 10% of those 560K had anything good to say about the PGC's management of deer...56,000 out of a 560,000 that leaves 504000 that are dissatisfied. Pretty sad ain't it? It was done by an independent contractor but we all realize that any survey results are only as good as the way the questions are asked. I didnt say I bought into it 100% I was merely correcting the statement you made that gave the impression that the 10% minority was happy when indeed the 10% minority were the unhappy (according to the survey) The survey may not be 100% accurate, but at least it has some semblance of a scientific survey. All I've seen from you so far is personal observations or stories about how you're rallying a posse of property posters. I Think I'll lean towards science. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
would you believe a report published by the anti gun groups printed in their magazine..naw didn't think you would. then why on earth do you expect us to believe a report about the PGC's customer service published in their own mag.?
like I've said many times over.........I thank God the PGC can no longer tell us how I and my neighbors manage our property.the only people that come up short are the hunters whom had free use of our land till of late.....this is a direct result of the PGC's mismanagement of the resource. |
RE: DEER COUNTING
So, do you have any proof of your 10% claim or not?
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RE: DEER COUNTING
Dang BTB!! You seem to have struck a sore point when it comes to dealing with facts.
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RE: DEER COUNTING
Guess so Ruff! Well, that "sore spot" now has 48 hours to heal;)
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