restrict archery lol
 

wingbar and others thinking that its unfair is on crack
do america a faver and put down the glass tube and
It would be unfair to make archers earn a buck and no one
else . comon think
The doe's arent getting bred if we kill the buck
but yeah make us kill a doe first wow some good crack you
have there bud. It hard for a dead doe to get bred right?
must be you are to lazy to learn the sport and go out and
do it so lets complain about it.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Dude, wingbar, chickory and several others never put in any constructive words it is the same stuff I hear in my local VFW back home...Had I listened to that trash long ago, I would still be sitting on that bar stool...

Many PA hunters who complain need to pay a few dollars and experience other states. Once one has had the opportunity to see how a program like Alt's works in other areas the whining will cease... So far, I have had the great fortune to hunt GA, AL, NC,OH, PA, MO, UT, WY, and CA. After going to all these places I learned that we in PA were way backwards in our overall approach to hunting and game management. While in many of those other states, I witnessed many different programs, but one thing remains clear, carrying capacity... Those other states try very hard to keep the population down and the quality of deer up... That is all Alt was trying to do. In states where we see large populations of deer we also see CWD and other problems that are far worse than changing ones hunting habits.

We also see land prices go up due to the better hunting potential of the land.... I like that... I bought that farm years ago and if the rules change back it is a sub-division and I am off for a better place with the $$$....

What is the definition of insanity== doing the same thing and expecting different results...

RE: restrict archery lol
 

That is what the PGC has been trying to do since 1980 when the OWDD goals were implemented. But, Alt got AR, the concurrent seasons and extened anterless season in SRA counties and the herd increased to an all time record of 1.6 M PS deer and we had zero herd reduction since Alt was appointed.

So can you please explained what Alt accomplished in the 4 years he was the deer czar?

RE: restrict archery lol
 

CURNOS1
I hope we NEVER have a moster buck state
IF you think it is trash talk well i dont give a crap
what you hear at a vfw is a bunch of drunks complaing for
something to do as they sit there and drink and gambel there money away
I wasnt complaing either
what other states have fenced deer with big racks hand feed
High land prices and taxes yea i want that in pa you may want to
stay out of the vfw
alt s plan sucked when the going got tough he bailed cause thiings didnt go his way kidda like you if they dont do what i want i am subdiveing and selling WHOOPE
we dont need moster bucks
I started this thread as a totaly diffrent thread thou
Make archery earn a buck but yet they want to talk about fairness
sorry if it offends you but that thinking someone is on CRACK!!!
The doe's dont get to get bred well archers dont kill all the bucks
but yea lets make us kill a doe then a buck yea the doe will get bred then
I see there thinking now
IF theymake me kill a doe IT WILL BE A BUTTON BUCK :D [:-]
ITs fair to make archers kill a doe first and nobody else

RE: restrict archery lol
 

I don't really see the problem with earning a buck tag by tagging out a doe first.

Moreso than earning a buck tag, I advocate "earning" doe tags. It's senseless to allow guys to buy 5 doe tags, which may never be filled, then guesstimate at the harvest rate of unreported tags. Why not simply force a hunter to file a report card accompanied by a follow-up application for another doe license.

We then have near 100% reporting and the antiquated doe license system goes to the wayside. Successful hunters will be able to kill does up to the desirable harvest levels, at which point the doe harvest could be stopped.

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As long as we are talking carrying capacity of the land.Here in Crawford county the P.A.G.C. says land is 50% forested & 50 % open ,so by using there numbers & goals of 12d.p.f.s.m. we should execpt 1 deer for every 106.6 acers.So if you are on stand and you see that big doe and her two fawns you better try to kill her cause chances are slim to none that you will be seeing anything else in that area.If it takes 100 plus acers to grow one 150 lb deer beef farmers are in trouble.These goals are to low.The only thing that has come from Dr.Alts plan is infighting amongst the very people he needed to support his plan.Stop passing the blame and start planning on how to get your hunting areas to where they should be.Buy the land and post if you think deer numbers are down.Or open it up to all doe slayers you know if you think a good doe is a dead doe.But don't go out and bitch about how someone who has a differant hunting style than you spends thier hunting time or money.[:'(]

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Good Point bawanajim... So, the crux of the matter is the definition of land or carrying capacity...?? If that is the definition used then it appears that is what is needing change. Not the whole program. Kinda like making a cake. If we change all the ingredients we could get a really bad taste. But one variable at a time makes subtle changes in the mix... Sounds like that could work....

Do not care how all hunt.. Doesn't matter to me...But then the game laws would need to be changed so that I could have someone arrested for trespassing and then procecute them... Here in PA that is damn near impossible.. If I pay the taxes and make the food plots and do the work then it should be mine...I agree, but when I call the Game commission and they tell me to call the police and they come whenever, there may be a problem with this one too...

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CUERNOS1 Tresspassing is nothing to be tolerated If you are on your land and and find un unwelcome guest call 911 and have them arrested on the spot ,it will be up to you to press charges but it must be done if these jerks don't know what keep out means.A cell phone & a small camera should always be in your pocket.don't put your self in danger if they will not ID them selves take a pic. of their back when they walk away ie licence # or of thier face to ID them later.Then go find their truck and take a pic. of the plates.The best thing about owning The land is you will have the final say of whos welcome and whos not. The deer are not are enemies.The tree huggers are.
For a Quote of the day hows this.
"[:'(]Plow up the golf courses and plant corn it will save our forests"

RE: restrict archery lol
 

I just dont understand the problem with archery.
Alot of pa hunters complain not enough deer.
but yet you want archers to kill a doe to earn a buck
What is the point is my question
CURionos sorry if my typing spelling is bad
NOT all can type and or spell well
For the most part many archers can kill a doe easy but myself
i dont in archery
But if the law make me i will spike a button buck the first day
I dont much care the farmer next to me could use the meat
he has 8 kids so.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

bowhunt, I agree with what this post was originally about. Somehow, it got turned into a carrying capacity thread. It always seems the archers are the first one targeting by many. Why? We take a very small percentage of the overall harvest each year. Most who bowhunt also gun hunt. I for one only trophy hunt regardless of gun or bow. I don't see the need or get the satisfaction out of killing a "legal enough" buck. I choose to let them walk. Heck, I didn't even kill a buck last year. Opportunities? Plenty! Just nothing I wanted to take.

Most of the guys yelling about the archers are those who hunt 90% with a gun. I'd be suprised any of these had ever picked up a bow and headed to the woods to truely appreciate hunting.;)

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You failed to mention WEST VIRGINIA. What do you think about there rules and regulations and the slaughtering of does within their state? How about the 9-10 deer allowed by their DNR?

RE: restrict archery lol
 

thankyou muzzyman
You see the point.

Sorry mossy i dont follow wv to much i hear they have a bad system there
thou

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Can somebody tell me what the percentage of archers to gun hunters there is, I'd really like to know. I personally try tagging a doe 1st because I could then be a little more selective on my buck. But let me ask you this, if they reduce the numbers of doe tags handed out, and I'm not one of the fortunate few to be drawn, does that mean I can't hunt archery that year????? Or do archers get 1st crack at doe tags?? How do you think that will fly with "Just gun hunters"?

I know there are many reasons a lot of people don't bow hunt, but if we're taking a lot of the "good" bucks, why not take up archery? The weather is better, you see deer in their natural element, and usually the rut starts right about the last week or so of archery season. Not to mention, a little more skill is involved (and luck).

If I'm guaranteed a doe tag, I would be more than happy to tag a doe 1st. RIGHTTTTTTT!!!!!! Like that will happen.

And Muzzyman, I can appreciate you guys who trophy hunt, but I truly love the taste of venison.But am I gonna shoot an 80 pound doe just for the sake of filling the freezer, or tagging it so I can shoot my buck, nada. Besides, how much meat can an 80 pounder give ya, 20 pounds of sausage, that's what.:D

RE: restrict archery lol
 

And there you have it arrowchucker. To each their own.;) I didn't say there was anything wrong with hunters who like the taste of venison. I like it too, and a nice big does usually tasts better anyway. I'll take my doe, no problem. I just like the thrill and challenge of trying to get close to a mature whitetail with a bow.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Nor did I take offense

RE: restrict archery lol
 

deer meat good fillmy tummy

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Just out of curiousity, is there anyone else who would be totally happy with just having one doe tag and a buck tag?

As for the original intent of this post, I must agree somewhat. I do not understand why archers are targeted for loss of priveleges when we are repeatedly told that we do not drastically impact the number of deer taken. If too many deer are being taken then it would seem logical to reduce either the number of doe tags issued or shorten the rifle season for does.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

My opinion is no matter whether you shorten gun season or make the archers take a doe first, AR's aren't going to work. The only way you can make AR's work and grow trophy bucks and it didn't seem to matter how many doe there were in the other states that I have hunted, is to restrict the size in inches. e.g. you're not allowed to shoot a buck under 115".

RE: restrict archery lol
 

On Frank's question. I would be more than happy with one doe and one buck tag. I just don't understand why some feel the need to purchase and kill as many deer as they get licenses for. I don't know too many people these days that really "need" the meat.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Frank, i for one with be perfectly happy with one doe tag and one buck tag.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Where did this "earn a buck" program info. come from? Did I miss this somewhere? I haven't read this in any of my local newspapers...........

And I have a problem with it. You mean to tell me if a 12 year old in a tree his first year and a 120" buck happens to walk by, he's gotta pass it up to kill a doe? That kid will probably never want to hunt again. Not that I place an emphasis on trophy hunting, especially for a little kid, and this is an extreme case, but big bucks are often a once in a lifetime deal in this state. What did you accomplish here?

I also have a problem with the antler restrictions. Why does most of southwest PA have a 4 point restriction? What's so special about our corner of the state? From what I've read on here, nobody in this area is having a problem finding deer period. I also believe that if kids 16 and under can kill any buck they want, SR. citizens should be allowed that privilege also.

I also don't believe in the doe/buck seasons running together either. This creates mass chaos in the woods, try hunting on game lands in greene county if you don't believe me. It's really ridiculous what goes on there. Random shooting and the "if it's brown, it's down" theory sadly precides over safety. It's a war out there. I witnessed this first hand as a 7mm mag bullet was carelessly slung over my head and I proceeded to introduce a city hunter to my fist. He knew I was sitting there......

I don't really know what should be done about the doe liscense allocations. Some areas need to thinned a little more, but others desperately need to be revitalized. Smaller Management Units may need to be put in place. But a separate season wouldn't be a bad idea, and I would like to see the "one deer a day" rule put back in place. At least in gun season.

The earn a buck deal wouldn't be a bad idea..........if it's for my 2nd buck tag. But don't tell me I have to pass up a buck to kill a doe. I have no problem taking a couple does with a bow or gun, I always do,but don't tell me when I have to do it.

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Mikey S. I agree with the earn a buck theory. Why not? Except for kids, I don't see a problem with it. IMO, whats accomplished is, the game commission would be able to ensure that a certain level of antlerless deer are taken each year, and in the effect, saving some bucks. The mentality of "getting your buck every year" and proving your manhood are gone.

As for concurrent season. I agree, its stupid. I hunt private ground thankfully and don't have to deal with the "pumpkin patch" that enters the woods with the "brown and down' motto. Its very dangerous in the woods that time of year.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Muzzyman, proving my manhood does not concern me the least. I have 2 hunting buddies, that's it, and we all hunt the same places. I've been bowhunting seriously since 93 when I was 19 years old. I've been fortunate enough to harvest 17 bucks and 14 does between PA and WV archery seasons. I think I've done well, but I'm starting to alter my hunting spots and strategies in search of a trophy buck, for I have not yet had the chance to put an arrow in one. Maybe you have, I'm glad for you if you did, but I know a lot of guys older than me(excellent hunters) who have not. It just hasen't happened yet. I just wouldn't want me, or anyone else in the state to miss an opportunity at a once in a lifetime animal because they weren't allowed. That opportunity may never happen again, and having to pass on it because of a rule, to me, is just BS. If that makes me sound like a bad hunter, sorry. I just want what I work for.

What are we saving bucks for?? That sounds like a manhood issue to me. PA is never going to have a trophy class buck herd available to the public. There are to many RIFLE hunters. We'll have some some nice 15-16" bucks running around, which is what I've noticed, but not record class animals. Look at Ohio. Yea, it's a flat state, with a smaller amount of hunters, and more/better farmland..........but look at the hogs that come out that state. There are no hunters picking off bucks at 400 yards away sitting on a powerline 5 feet from the truck. You want more bucks? Give us the slug gun season, make the mass of hunters go back in the woods and learn how to hunt again. You'll save all the bucks you want.

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It will never fly - there are way too many people that would be opposed to it. I am one of those. Not that I won't/don't shoot doe (I am more than wiling), but I would be one upset hunter if I had to pass a buck of a lifetime just because I hadn't seen a doe to shoot. I could be a lifetime hunter who has never seen or been able to harvest a "wallhanger" and maybe I'm fine with that, but if and when the time came, I sure as heck better have the "right" to shoot the biggun.

It very well might work in certain areas where it is needed, but for the most part I say its a bad idea, which many hunters wouldn't follow if it were passed.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Good question Frank!
Personally, I'm one of those guys who shoots (and uses) 5-6 deer per season now that it's legal. I am taking those deer from overpopulated suburbia. If were talking about areas where HR has had its' effect then one of each is plenty. On the other hand, 2B and 5C still had unsold tags right up to the end of the season. In that case, letting the hunters who can be effective in getting the deer buy multiple tags just makes sense.


Mikey,

It's not even under consideration. earn a buck has been suggested but has not ever been seriously considered. When it was suggested it certainly wasnt directed just at archers.

Heres a thought though, in SRA's and area where the doe population is still high, why not start Archery two weeks earlier for doe only in those areas only. The effect will be some does killed before the rut in areas where it's needed with no adverse effect on the bucks. As for the jealous non archers who will scream about our long season I would say two things:

1 You are welcome to get yourself a bow and join us

2 If not, archers are now about 35% of the hunters but only kill something around 20% of the deer. Until we exceed 35% of the kill, they have nothing to complain about. They should get over it.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

If I ever have to kill A doe to earn A buck I will give it up and hunt Coyote's.

RE: restrict archery lol
 

Still nobody has answered my question, if by some crazy reason this "Earn a buck" stupidity ever actually reaches a point where a vote is nedded to pass, how will they regulate it? I'll ask again, say I'm not drawn for doe tag, does that mean I can't hunt archery season? How will that fly with us 35%?

I'm not here to start "nagging" on the gun hunters,because I'm one myself, but the thought of earning a buck is one of the most ridiculos(sp) things I've ever had the displeasure of hearing.

Thanks BTB for answering my question on what percentage we bowhunters are.

And lost horn, huntin' coyotes is freaking blast!!!!!!:D

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Yep, more fun than doe hunting.

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btbowhunter
earn a buck is crap but i think you are right bring in archery 2 weeks early to allow for some
xtra doe's to be killed in areas that need it.