Attention NE hunters!
 

What are the good and bad policies of your wildlife agencies?
Here in PA one big plus is the amount of state land we have to hunt on.
Our game commission with the help of the NWTF has done a pretty good job of turkey management so far
ditto with the bears
An average job of habitat improvement on the gamelands

Now the not so good policies,
deer
smallgame-we're protecting too many predators are our small game numbers are dwindling
clearcutting-lack of
Public relations-haven't been totally honest about deer management.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

As someone who spends a lot of time in both New England, and PA hunting I think I can provide some good input.

PA does not have it nearly as hard as a lot of people think it is. I do think the hunting in PA could be improved and with the amount of farm land and crops, I think it has the potential to be nearly as good as alot of the "Big Buck" states in the midwest. There are too many hunters though, and it would take drastic changes such as shorter seasons for rifle (buck and doe), less deer tags per hunter, and continued AR, probably a lot of other things too......I am a salesmen, not a game biologist.

Vermont is hurting LOTS more than PA. We have had a huge percentage of the farms stop operations and planting of crops since 10 years ago. The majority of the woods are maple, or softwoods i.e. not a lot of mast producing hardwoods. Hunters have the ability to take 3 deer per year, 3 of which can be bucks if using the right tags. No open rifle season for does, and no AR. I personally am able to score consistently, however it is usually on a large doe. This year, I did shoot a yearling buck because it was walking to where I know another hunter was that is notorious for shooting anything legal. I watched the buck for 1/2 an hour, and decided to shoot only if it went in his direction. I before this passed 1 other yearling buck during archery in favor of a larger buck, or a mature doe. We have serious problems with does not getting bred. I saw personally the same 4 does every day during archery season, and 2 bucks. That's it in over 100 hours hunting.....I hunted other spots too and saw nothing. 3 of those does had no fawns. Predators run wild here too..........I know numerous people that shoot deer in the evening and decide to track in the morning to only find half a deer and yote tracks everywhere. I have seen almost as many predators this year as I have deer. I was the only person to even see a buck during any seasons this year on over 900 acres that is hunted pretty hard by others.

I will continue to hunt Vermont every year that is possible though. The big bucks are few and far inbetween, however I still manage to put meat in the freezer every year (usually archery) and it allows me to hunt the spots my father and I did when I was a kid. The deer also have the genetics up here to be much bigger animals. 200+lb dressed mature bucks aren't that rare amongst the few mature bucks that are harvested. I hope the Fish and Game department finally does something about AR and limiting number of deer shot per person......we need help up here much worse than PA ever did, VT makes PA look like Texas.

On the good side, the turkeys are everywhere and Vermont is a hidden gem when it comes to them............called 6 legal birds last year in 3 days with 2 of them being mature toms. I saw many more turkeys this year than I did deer when in the woods, but unfortunately they compete with the deer for browse and the state is literally infested with them. They don't even really get pressured like they do in PA for some reason.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Pa is working hard to get rid of excess hunters.

We have harvested more antlerless deer in pa, than antlered for over ten years.

We are now at a level where we are harvesting 2 antlerless for every antlered. And we still harvest the same sized bucks we used to 20 years ago, we still harvest spikes a nd 4 points too because they are legal for youth hunters...

Pa's worst problem is that we have a large population of hunters and they would like to take a buck if they could. The current regs are causing hunters to drop out. We had a drop of 41,000 hunters between 2002-2003 and we will continue to lose hunters for the upcoming years due to lack of sightings and dropping buck harvests the last 4 years.

Turkey, bear, coyotes are not enoguh to keep hunters interested, because like it or not the whitetail was our keystone species (no pun intended), and with the cuts we are losing hunters.

Yes, Pa had too many hunters. That is why we managed our state to provide a lot of deer for hunters even if they were smaller.

The fad of QDM is not very well accepted in pa because it is based on rack hunting which many do not think is the goal of hunting.

The goal was to harvest the excess population, and not to manipulate it too appease wannabe rack hunters.


quanitity versus quality is nothing new, but when you lose the quantity and the quality improves very little as has been witnessed in pa over 10 years of harvesting MORE ANTLERESS THAN ANTLERED....... then you just have hunters lose interest.

Pa's worst attribute? They have no courage of conviction, they follow fads like QDM.

We don't want to be a trophy state, that is the shallow end of the hunting gene pool. [:'(]

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Rick James....The problem with Vermont is the poachers. In Maine, we call people from vermont varmints. And for good reason. The majority of varmints that hunt in Maine are poachers....they hunt all night and sleep all day. A very effective strategy, but highly illegal. I have witnessed it first hand. When I pull in to a road at first light looking for a fresh track, and see a truck full of hunters with vermont plates pulling out of that road, It doesn't take a genius to figure out what they are up to. Then, when you drive the road and see nothing but fresh tracks, boot tracks, coming out of the woods to the road....well, you get the picture. Vermont has quite the rep around here as being a state that is chock full of poachers, not just a few. And when there are that many, they can definately have a huge impact on deer numbers. And lastly, look at every state that surrounds Vermont. All of them are full of deer, big deer. Your wardens should start working third shift, and leave the law abiding first shift hunters be. Then you might see a difference.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

I agree somewhat, however PA has a much larger problem with the poachers believe me. A lot of it happens in VT, but I grew up here and never saw as much of it as in PA. When the AR came into affect, there are so many areas where people own hundreds of acres of private land, with no access to it from roads and people shoot them and cut them up without doe tags right on the property, before it even leaves the property, it is in a cooler or freezer. I don't think the main problem in VT is poaching, maybe further up north, I think the problem is the lack of farmland these days and lack of mast producing trees.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Come to West Virginia, they define the word "Poaching".

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

while i wouldn't say that we are chock full of poachers, i am certainthere are more than our share. however, vermont is far from being known as a state full of them. trust me, as one who in the not so far past has worked with many of the local dregs of society, that's something even they didn't do. i think that the mainers steal vermonters plates when they come vacationing here, slap them on in november, then do their dastardly deed, lol. just kidding. but i tell you what, vermont has wonderful hunting and fishing opps. as someone who has hunted here for 23 years, i can tell you it has done nothing but get better and better. like rick said, the turkeys are everywhere, as are the deer. i know that i have shot a buck 3 out of the last 5 years, and the only reason i didn't score on a buck the other two was because of the girlfriend having our children. numerous does since 96. very few people get two bucks here, despite the regs allowing it, fewer get 3. if a person can't shoot a deer here, then they aren't trying. look for example at how many deer we shoot in bow season, i know we did used to lead n.e. in bow kills. and we have shot many large deer every year, i wish our dept. would just publicize it like the surrounding states do. vermont is truly THE sportsmans paradise of the northeast, handsdown. thanks to the dept, my hat is off to you, keep up the good work, kick out the cockroach laroche. he will be our downfall, just you watch. dumbass ar's and qdm ideas.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Not too many Pa hunters will agree with you there


A proven statistically insignificant precentage. Other than out of jealousy that some kid may shoot the little buck you had to pass, how can you even bring this up?

Proof??

The degree of HR may be in question but the basics of QDM have been well accepted by the majority


The shallow end of the gene pool of Pa hunters are the ones leaving because they cant shoot just any buck and the guys who regard a doe as a consolation or booby prize

What Pa is doing right is attempting to undo years of mismanagement. The PGC has a tough row to hoe, but they only have themselves to blame. They trained Pa hunters to think the wrong way for years.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Wow what a rude awakening when I read the post from moosehornhunter. Mr moosehunter I have read a few of your posts and enjoyed them but I think you are way off the mark classifying all Vermonters as being poachers. I hunt VT, NH or Maine, New York and Newfoundland and am proud to be from VT All my hunting friends are true sportsmen and hunt by tracking during legal hours in the big woods. To have you say that when you get to a hunting place and see the VT vehicles already there means to me you are probably arriving late. Spent too much time at the diner filling up with grease and about mid day arriving at a place to hunt and seeing too many people there as an excuse to go home and whine. Go back to Mass and quit trying to be from the north country. Vermont and proud of it. And by the way you are way off the mark about the Benoits (other post).

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Wow!! Bottom line...the poaching problem in any and all states is found in the local population. Idahoans poach deer in Idaho, Georgians in Georgia, Vermonters in Vermont...and Mainers in Maine. When you point your finger there are three more pointing right back at you. Read the Maine newspapers as recently as the last few weeks. Mainers killing deer after deer after deer after... I'd bet that 90% of the illegally killed deer in any state are killed by the native population of that state. Nuff said on that ridiculousness...

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Champlain....I spend enough time in the north woods to have my opinions and to have seen more than my share. I make part of my living in the woods. And when I tell you that alot of vermonters are jackin deer up there, I mean it. When a guy is going home at first light after a long night trackin in the dark, I have a problem with it. When truckloads do it, there is a problem with it. I'm just letting you guys know what my and others experiences have taught us. Obviously, not all vermonters do it....but more than enough do. I couldn't care less if they kill every deer in vermont. I hunted there once, and will never go back. i PASSED UP A 4 POINT ON MY FIRST NIGHT, and when someone at the store asked me how my hunt was going and I told them about passing the 4 point, everyone in the store looked at me like I had 3 heads. A couple guys even commented that you don't pass up deer here. I'm glad that you are all proud of your state....stay there. Cuz next there won't be a big buck to be found in Maine. The truth is the truth. And yes, your state is known in the northeast as being chock full of poachers...sorry to be the one to break the bad news to ya.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Seems like we all agree,poaching is a problem.
Here in PA poaching is getting worse because areas of state land are approaching being void of deer.These poachers can't find a way to kill deer while they're hunting so they go poach on private lands.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Thanks DLUC for your correct analysis. Poaching is a real bad trait that a small percentage of hunters in every state do. It is breaking the law and there are always going to be those that don't follow the rules. Moose you have your opinion about Vermonters and I guess that I can't change it so I won't even try. Have a nice day. We sportsmen need to police ourselves and educate those that don't follow the rules. The antis are always looking for any excuse to point fingers and we don't need to help them.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

I guess I've been living under a rock, I'll bet I've seen a total of a dozen Vermont plates in my area since I've lived here. Maybe it's because I live in Warren county (about as far north east as you can get other than Erie), but I see alot more Ohio plates than any state I can think of. I hunted in Ashtabula county this year and have seen the biggest deer of my life there. So why spend the 100 bucks plus, to hunt in a state that doesn't even have Sunday hunting? I'll tell you why, because they get a one week shotgun only season (in most areas). They do have a wonderful archery season, even longer than Pa, but who the hell wants to hang from a tree in 15-20 degree weather at the end of January?

We all have scum poachers in our states, but most of those are locals. They would almost have to be. Unless you live very close to the state border.

The thing that does worry me is when I go coyote hunting at 2:00 am and a DER Jeep drives by while I'm getting my shotgun out of the backseat, and they don't even stop to ask what's going on. That happened to me about a week ago. Not that I want to be hasseled while I'm sitting in the woods and or field, but why not stop and ask while I'm standing on the side of the road?

That my friends is unsetteling.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

ok, i cooled off a bit about the poaching thing, but that's only because it's been so damned cold up here i didn't have a choice. i guess the obvious question for moose is.. if you think/know/believe that the guys are jacking deer, why the hell don't you get on the phone to your local warden/cop, and let them know? get a license plate, for christ's sake, if you are close enough to see a green plate, then you are close enough to get at least a partial tag number. how many times have you seen an actual blood trail leading to a vehicle? if you think that poaching is happening, and don't believe that the warden can get there on time, what is your excuse for not trailing the guy to see where he goes? sounds pretty simple to me. i have been guiding guys from maine for the last 3 years down here for turkey, and have yet to hear such a comment out of their mouths.. maine is known as a tough state against those that break their game laws, most guys i know wouldn't dream of doing something wrong there. it used to be you lost your license, weapon, vehicle and most likely did some time for breaking the law, not worth it if you ask me. i bet your locals are the ones that are far more likely to be doing any poaching, they know the warden's schedule far better than someone who is only there to hunt for a few days, and can run an animal home to a safe spot quicker than an out of state hunter ever dreamed of doing. maybe mainers are just jealous in your area because the vermonters are far better hunters than they ever dreamed of, have to have some kind of excuse to use. still think the mainiacs are stealing tags in the summer and slapping them on in november, lol.
Pat

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

I highly doubt the reason the Vermont deer population is in dire straights is because of poaching..........I've never heard a good thing about the deer management in that state for 30+ years, seems to me it's a management issue, and nothing more.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

Phil you hit the nail right on the head. That is why many of us hunt other states. When I hunt the big woods of New Hampshire and Maine the majority of the vehicles I see way back in the bush are Vt tags. Believe me all these Vt hunters are not poachers, they are hunting and tracking and thankful they can hunt such a wonderful place.

RE: Attention NE hunters!
 

The lighter side......
http://home.frontiernet.net/newsdeta...?cat=1&id=9427